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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old January 7th, 2007, 02:56 AM   #1
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iRiver+giant squid..VS..crisp+clear audio!

Hi there,

I know there are a million and one threads on the iriver and giant squid, but this is slightly different.

I own these, and use the settings posted on previous threads to obtain the 'best recordings' whilst attached to the groom's lapel.
Trouble is, when i finally get hold of the mp3, it is sometimes really quiet, and with the occasional rustling sound. It's making me think I should change to wireless mics, which would be less work with post-production volume changing+matching.

- Anyone else with similar probs, knows a good, consistent fix? (maybe i have the mic in the wrong place on the groom's jacket?) OR
- should i try wireless mics to use with an FX1, if so which are good and seemingly best value for money? OR
- any table-top mic recommendations to use with the iRiver, instead of the giant squid?

n.b. i happily use the rode videomic, but was just after that extra backup and clear+crisp voice level of the b+g, that some of you get so well!

cheers
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Old January 7th, 2007, 07:52 AM   #2
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i use my PDA for the lectern... at the samplerate i use (uncompressed 44.1 16bit) it comes in crystal clear, BUT i run 2 wireless mics.. 1 G1 for main, and a G2 for backup (G1 has longer range but shorter battery life)

cant fault it..
I also plant a wirless mic on the lectern for speeches or tap into teh DJ's mixer if i canFor hardcore difficult jobs, i whip out the Zeppeli and 486 longthrow mic.. only use that for external beach type weddings though.. too expensive to throw around in the bag

Just thinking.. i did a wedding the other day and i had the mic on the grooms lapel.. all was sweet.. nice clear sound.. THEN as they did the vows, teh minister gives tehm the paper to read from.. so the groom is holding a mic and the paper... reading it out.. BUT he had the paper aganst his chest.. al i could hear was shshsishishihishiashidsihihsis as the paper rustled as he moved... i jsut wanted to call out STOP.. dude.. hold the paper like ur reading it...

sometmies even teh best gear cant change the way an event rolls out..
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Old January 7th, 2007, 12:48 PM   #3
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Double check that when you download your files to your computer they are coded with the prefix EXMIC and not VOICE, as it sounds like you are running from the internal mic even though you have a lav plugged in. It is very easy to do by mistake.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 06:49 PM   #4
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use an external preamp, if you can solder parts forless than 10 USD, or you can buy small ones from Church Audio on ebay or from Sound Professionals.

use a different recorder with a better built in preamp, like a Sony HiMD recorder, the iRiver H120/140/320/340 or the Roland R-09.

or use wireless.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 08:44 PM   #5
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I use a couple of ifp899 Irivers w/squids in addition to my Azden dualchannel wireless system and have never had a problem similar to yours with them. I think Patrick is barking up the right tree and that you don't have the external mic enabled and it's using the onboard one...double check that setting, the Iriver/giant squid combo is great for what we do.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 03:54 AM   #6
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hi,
thanks for your advice...
i definitely am recording from exmic (from the ifp 899)...but thinking about it, i've got a sneaky suspicion the record settings keep resetting (they did once before when i changed the battery, but not sure they do everytime you turn it off?)...i must remember to look into it when i get home tonight
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Old January 8th, 2007, 05:42 AM   #7
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The I River is great, but I sometimes have the same situation as Richard, it's just not totally clean every time and the levels are a bit low (yes the iriver is set up correctly). I can work with the material and make it clean but that's a work around.

The real solution is to use a wireless mic on the groom and keep the iriver as a backup. In the role of a backup it can't be beat. But for main audio Richard you should invest in a good wireless system. It also allows you to monitor the quality of the sound as it hits the camera. That alone is worth the investment so you leave the ceremony knowing 100% that you audio is what you wanted.

Ben
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Old January 8th, 2007, 06:01 AM   #8
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cheers Ben, i was hoping someone would have roughly the same problem as me...

the iriver is absolutely fantastic when it works, but can be a gamble as you can't monitor it while it records...unless i dangle my heaphones out of the groom's pocket and listen in during the vows :)

i might look at wireless setups as an addition then, or use surface mics (Alastair Brown kindly reminded me about the good use of those)

what might i look at in terms of prices, recommendations for a wireless system?...sennheisser right?
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Old January 8th, 2007, 08:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson
al i could hear was shshsishishihishiashidsihihsis as the paper rustled as he moved... i jsut wanted to call out STOP.. dude.. hold the paper like ur reading it...

sometmies even teh best gear cant change the way an event rolls out..

I learned a hard lesson recently, and now what I do is put one lapel on the minister, and one on the groom. As long as they don't leave the bride at one time, I should get her vows decently, and be able to have both minister and groom come in clear, one acting as back up for the other.

I use to put all my eggs in one basket, but I try not to anymore.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 08:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Wakefield
cheers Ben, i was hoping someone would have roughly the same problem as me...
what might i look at in terms of prices, recommendations for a wireless system?...sennheisser right?
While I agree there's no substitue for a good wireless rig you guys shouldn't be having these "rustling" problems with the iRiver/Squid combo. You all know what you're doing but where are you clipping the mic on the groom? Does the mic tip move or brush against the fabric (or boutonniere) when he extends his arm?

This wireless system works well:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

And I'd fork over the extra $100 for this one that includes a butt plug for a mic:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

With either model, get the right frequency range that best suits your geographical area. Search the boards... lots of info here on the E2 system.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 08:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Steele
While I agree there's no substitue for a good wireless rig you guys shouldn't be having these "rustling" problems with the iRiver/Squid combo. You all know what you're doing but where are you clipping the mic on the groom? Does the mic tip move or brush against the fabric (or boutonniere) when he extends his arm?

Well, like Peter said, you can't predict sometimes what someone will do with a piece of paper.

I finally bought a white mic because I got tired of the photog telling the groom to tuck his microphone in for pictures.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 10:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Wakefield
...
I own these, and use the settings posted on previous threads to obtain the 'best recordings' whilst attached to the groom's lapel.
Trouble is, when i finally get hold of the mp3, it is sometimes really quiet, and with the occasional rustling sound. It's making me think I should change to wireless mics, which would be less work with post-production volume changing+matching.

- ...
To minimize the rustle, do a quick google for "broadcast loop" which shows how to create a strain relief loop in the cable at the mic clip. This goes a long way to reducing clothing and handling noises. Mount the mic as close to the midpoint on the chest as possible at about the nipple line, pointed up towards the mouth. The direction the mic capsule faces is especially important if it is a cardioid pattern mic, less critical if it's an omni (omni lavs generally work best except in sound reinforement situations where feedback is a problem). Gaffers tape securing cable hidden inside the jacket also helps reduce noise from clothing movement.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 01:47 PM   #13
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Let me clarify my issue: my levels are mediocre. I don't have the rustling sound. The rustling sound happened one time when the church put a lapel mic on the groom right on top of the i river mic, but that was their issue. On a normal shoot I don't have any extra ordinary rustling sound.

My biggest issue with the iriver is that it's only good for one source. It will sound great for the groom, but very weak for the bride. Or it will sound great for the bride, but loud for the groom. It doesn't present the same latitude as a wireless system or the ability to ride the levels on-camera as it's being recorded to make up the difference.

It works great for a single source audio or a feed recorder, but it lacks the ability to capture multiple sources on the fly.

I still use it every wedding, but as a single source recording device.

Ben
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Old January 8th, 2007, 01:56 PM   #14
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I personally wouldn't consider any mic (wireless or iriver) as your 'main audio' as Ben suggested before. I would think of each audio source as a piece of the larger whole. An iriver does not need to be a backup mic whatsoever, I just wouldn't try and use it for more than it is good for- and the same can be said for a wireless. I would never trust a wireless for more than the bride and groom, or the officiant by themselves, or the podium by itself- each is good for one thing- in my opinion. I always use a minimum of three mics- for the bride and groom, for the officiant, and for the podium, and when it comes to editing those down, and cannot see how I could leave without any one of them as the sound quality would take a pretty big hit. I find the iriver works great, and even better in some situations, than a wireless, they key is to use several and have them all set properly, including how they are mounted to clothes.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 04:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Davis
Well, like Peter said, you can't predict sometimes what someone will do with a piece of paper.
Well, given that wrinkle any microphone would have problems. That's why I string a lav cord up the podium mic. I've never used the iRiver to record using it's internal mic (never tried it). But the poster was talking about wiring up the groom. Noise of this nature usually occurs becuase the mic tip is touching something.

Quote:
I finally bought a white mic because I got tired of the photog telling the groom to tuck his microphone in for pictures.
Why don't you mic the groom up after the photog is done? Or do you mean the photog is doing this during the cermemony? (Let's hope not). [/QUOTE]
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