Projection at the Reception
 

This question is a little different. I'm not sure if it's a trend I'm seeing but I'm hearing more about it here in my area as I get calls this year. Usually it's the guys that ask me about this, but while I'm filming the Reception they ask if we can project what we're filming on to a big screen. It's something I could easily do but people here already bark at my prices and I'm not sure they'd really like to spend the extra money for that. It's 4hrs of bulb use each party and we know bulbs aren't cheap. I'm not to keen on the idea as it would limit my mobility and creativity, so I'd setup my SD cam to run this type of setup. I guess my question is; is this also becoming a hot trend in your area? It's primarily done for Quinceaneras/Sweet 16 here in my area not weddings.

Monday

Yes it is becoming more of a request here as well. I wouldn't offer it for free though as your video will suffer while your shooting for the crowd and it is extra setup etc.

I would tell my clients that unless we have a separate crew specifically for the projection, then it would be like displaying a movie before it's been edited. So they can either have a really great video, or a nice novelty at the wedding.

get this abit.. not that popular here in aus as my clientelle are more the "naturalists"so theyre not all for teh big bells and whistles.. unfortunately.. as here in aus, thats where the money is..

Anyways with this, i charge 550 for the projection ON ITS OWN.. thats whether they want aslideshow or minimovie projected.. if i have to bring my unit, its 550.. a lil less than a new bulb.. people freak.. but i dont care.. its a $3700 projector and my insurance on it alone is enough to give you a heartatack
If i connect RCAs to the unit straight from cam, its either on a tripod static, or i get a written agreement that the crowd will not cross the cable. i cant afford losing the shot, let alone having someone kill my projector becuase htey wanna take a short cut...
If i bring another shooter just for this purpose, its another $400 bux..

nothing is free.. and im sick of clients who expect us to give them the world.. i call it a champaigne diet on a lemonade budget... what gets me is taht they want this, but dont want to pay us.. BUT if a photographer charges a grand for this, theyre happy to pay

Why would a separate crew make it any different in terms of whats being shown? Most couples are just loking for dancing footage blown up on the wall. This obviously wouldn't be filmed in the same way as you would shoot their video and there is no editing involved, so I don't understand your point.

From my experience, this sort of thing takes less time mopared to a same-day edit, so it is very doable and much easier thana same-day edit. It may be a little much to say that their 'really great video' is going down the tubes if they have you doing something else for 30 minutes. I simply let the couples we work with know that while we are doing that, we aren't filming for their wedding video.

I thought the question was to have a projector at the wedding, not the reception. No wonder it seemed silly to me. Personally, I wouldn't offer it. If that is the one thing that causes a potential client to go somewhere else, so be it.

I agree with Peter though, charge what you have to.

Regardless of the event it would require additional people to be on hand plus the projector cost. So there would always be a charge for this. The event determines the cost.

If it's the ceremony then this is the added equipment: Projection screens and projectors, cables, switcher, a director to call the shots that will be shown, and one assistant to help set up and make sure that everything runs properly. It's a live event cut and requires a lot of pre-setup plus the director there to keep everything looking smooth.

At a reception/party it's a bit easier. Screen, projector, one manned camera dedicated to the feed. The other normal videographers will cover the event as usual. The person on hand for the feed supplies the material for just that purpose: viewable material for the projector.

So either way, it requires at least one additional person on hand to insure that the projection material looks presentable. You could do it with no extra help, but best of luck.

If clients really understood the value of a screen and a projector they would hire VJ's for their receptions to compliment the work of the djs. A vj would have all the materials to control the projector and mix in your live footage with backdrops that will compliment the event. The reality is that most weddings are low budget and clients don't understand that there's more to a good party than loud music.

Ben

Thank you everyone for your replies. It's good to hear what others think about the subject. I do have a problem in my area, a good portion of the Hispanic Video & Photo companies charge a ridiculously low price for both services. They charge between $500 - $1500 for both video and photo services and the quality that is produced is usually poor to a descent but boring video, and really bad to pretty good photos. My market that I've been targeting for 2 years is a tough one with my current prices and yearly price increase. My point is this, that the Hispanic companies are offering this additional service but at a very low price. $1800 that will include photos videos and projection of the dance floor at the reception. In some cases they will use 1-3 projectors.

If I just add the projection to my video package only it goes well over $2000 which gets clicks on the phones with potential clients in my area. I was trying to see if anyone was in the same boat at all with this. I'm not sure what to do, I would have to add another filmer to the team just to film the reception for the projection and also to make sure my stuff is not damaged by a kid tripping over it or running into the table where the projector is on. This would insure I will be able to do my job creating their Quinceanera/Sweet 16 video. Thanks for all the replies, as it helps me with this decision making process.

Take Care

Monday

It can be done for less, but is that what you want? If your happy putting together a $2000 package that provides video with projection then go for it.

To do it cheap you may want to invest in a switcher and simply cut the projection cameras into a final mixed video as things happen. That's a boring final video compared to what can be done in the edit, but it saves hours of editing time later on. Three people, two cameras, any number of projectors and screens, and you can put together a good production. And that might be what your client is looking for. More of an impact at the event and they'd be happy with a "rough" edit for later. IMAG does look great when it's used right.

But remember, if you cut it live then your working as a team. And like any team you get better as you go and the more you work together, the better you'll get at cutting events on the fly and making it look great.

If I had a client base that could provide enough work I wouldn't hesitate to put together a three person team to specifically cover those events live with IMAG and a live cut recorded to tape. If you don't have any post editing time you can make a fair amount of money doing it that way even at $1800 per event.

On the other hand, if you want to focus on a very nice end product without being distracted with projection then maybe you should sub contract out the projection portion or simply let clients know that you don't offer that service and they'll need to go elsewhere if they would like it.

It sounds like you have a client base so maybe it's time to re-think your production methods and put a focus on live event coverage and rather than shooting for the edit.

Ben

Hey Ben thanks for your reply,
Yeah I'm not happy having to do all that work or have it on my mind while filming during the day. It would cost $600-$800 extra for something like this (I think, I need to look at figures again). That would be just adding on the live projection. You have a very good point about rethinking how I produce the final product, I could do a live edit with switching but in the end the final product will suffer greatly as it won't be as creative as I would want it to be. It would not be as enjoyable as I want the quality of it to be. So I have a lot of thinking to do especially considering the market I'm in. I don't want to go the route of live projection but if I lose numerous jobs I might have to re adjust. Thanks for you input, it's very much appreciated

Monday

good points, however afew things to take note are of this

are those companies offering this doing it to score the client from YOU? As in are they undercutting? Also if theyre offering orojections so cheap, more thn likely theire projectors are the cheaparsed data projectors which arent worth the plastic theyre in.. in the longrun, a decent projector with fatassed resolution and bulb life will make a huge difference. Ansi Lumens and contrast also play a major factor as if the colour/brightness is off, people may assume that its the footage, not he projector

Are these people ofering these cheap prices legit? or are they doing it cashin hand? If theyre avoiding the taxman then of course theyre going to be cheaper..

If going for a switcher, u could alwuyas try video toaster which is a live switcher and recorder, however to be honest, i dont see why anyone would want this.. its a 12k system for a dedicated PC and console... and it can either be digital or analogue, but good luck finding a 20metree 1394 cable

For a stage show projected ona screen for ""ëase of viewing" then its a good idea, as the crowd can see whats happening on stage much better, however for client ego boosting reasons, i wouldnt recomend it as the filming is totally different. When filming for live, the cameras must ALWAYS be spot on, the operator must ALWAYS be on the ball and NOT make any mistakes. The director or switcher must also know how each camera operator works, and know when to switch between the 2 or 3 or 4 or 5... and ore improtntnly the cameras must be calbrated.
Most switchign boards allow for live colour correction basd on their respective channel. The onus is then on the switcher to ensure that the cameras WB is consistant during the switch.

To be honest, theres not enogh money in it to warrant such an effort.. if there was a market for it (i do 4 live shows a year with abotu 2500 in the crowd, and 6 smaller estepfords (between 300 and 600 in the crowd) ) then it may change things, but id only do this if the package exceeds 5grand. The live switch is not a part of the edit package, so in turn, im doublehanding the job. Also, i dont buy my switchers, i hire them as technology changes and im not willing to fork out 5k for upgrades every year.

Projection at Reception
 

Hi Monday,

Yes, reception entertainment expectations by our customers are growing. A few years ago, the demand was primarily to view edited love stories, photo montages, interviews, music videos, concept videos (skits), etc.

Lately, Same Day Edits have started to gain popularity (much of it using one of the above with quickie cuts/edits along with some footage from the ceremony). And for those videographers that balk at SDE, no problemo - some of the DJs are more than happy to enter into the videographer's turf! No more just competing with the photographers for a decent shot. Some videographer forums have had charged dicussions about the challenges trying to do a quality shoot when a DJ crew is competing for wedding video. In fact, quite a few videographer contracts have clauses prohibiting competitive for-hire videographers; nice thought, but sometimes the B&G first hired the DJ with THEIR contract already in place.

Anyway, I'm not trying to highjack this thread - the point is, yes, we should expect more B&Gs to seek video entertainment at the receptions. FYI - my rig is a Dell 2300 projector, Draper Road Warrior portable screen, Mackie 450 speakers w/tripods, and a Panasonic DMRES46 DVD player. And yes, they *do* have to pay for it. If the Groom wants a plasma, I'll rent one, have it delivered, and pass through the heafty billing.

Finally, as with any gear, don't overlook the safety considerations! Your insurance agent should know about your gear, especially from a liability perspective. Even if you use gaffers tape, sandbag tripods, etc., we're still at the mercy of someone who's had "one too many" and knocks over 30 pound of gear onto another innocent guest. And who do you think the lawyer will call in the morning? Yet another reason to charge a fair price, right? Another tip - don't keep projector gear out in the reception area longer than necessary.

Who was that guy that said our job was easy, anyway?

Michael

""Who was that guy that said our job was easy, anyway?""
The moron who has no idea about what we do...

We get requests for different types of setups and we offer diferent setups. If we need to subcontract to fill a request then we do without any hesitation.
We have a plasma monitor and a projector with screen & audio. We also have a jib.

A few months ago a client wanted to make sure the congregation could see her daughter from the front for the entire wedding ceremony. They also wanted to show a montage that we created, at the reception. We neded two plasma screens facing the congregation with the feed from one camera feeding both monitors for the ceremony. We subcontracted a DJ to bring in and set up the two monitors. We then used our own equipment for the reception. We were paid well and booked several weddings as a result.

We firmly believe that video belongs to the video industry, not the DJ industry. Even though we sub-contracted some of the work to them, the B&G were able to book all of their video needs with us.

Every job is not the big one with all the bells and whistles but we never turn down a big job because we don't have the equipment. We take the challenge and Make It Work.
Allen W

Thanks Michael for your reply, it's very much appreciated.

Thanks for the reply Allen also, its very much appreciated.

"Every job is not the big one with all the bells and whistles but we never turn down a big job because we don't have the equipment. We take the challenge and Make It Work."

i think this is fundamental in all areas of business, however one must also consider the budget, and 99% of people i personally deal with DONT have the budget for this type of thing..
I wish they did, else id be sitting back directing while everyone else does the work for me but unfortunately, its not like this the majority of time.

Amen. If the budget barely covers the cost of the additional gear and personnel, why bother offering the service.

I thought the primary goal of a production company is to run a business and make money. I just don’t understand why people whore themselves out like this.

- Offering more than you can provide
- Making promises that you can’t keep
- Directing your staff when you should be focused on videotaping
- Not making a reasonable profit for all the extra work

It just doesn’t make any sense. It’s time to start telling clients the truth. If you want cheap Mexican labor, you will pay for it every time you watch your video.

The extra money you spend for a great videographer will be forgotten. The crummy video shot with a cheap handycam will never be forgotten.

You've made some harsh statements Scott.

Your comment about cheap Mexican labor is completely inappropriate. Cheap labor, fine. Don't bring in a racial stereotype. The statement works without the word Mexican in there.

As for your third theory of production work: Any quality production requires someone to manage and direct the project. Period. It's about more than just one camera capturing one shot. Multi camera shoots require a coordinated effort. Sometimes you have to give up your own personal camera skills to better coordinate the group as a whole.

You have some valid points that make good business sense and would make sense for any production budget. Even low end video makes money if done correctly.

Ben

Actually, I was responding to a post in this thread that said:

As you can see, I used the term "Mexican" fairly. I don't have anything against Mexicans, as long as they are legal citizens, pay taxes and don't run my company out of business with their cheap labor.

The original posting uses the word "Hispanic" in a respectable manner.

Be aware that this is a public forum and your comments are being read by the general public.

Ben

The first thing I do when the subject of video presentations comes up is to clarify the purpose. I am seeking to learn if the presentation is going to be a feature within that time frame politely known as "public remarks or toasts" and sometimes referred to as the "blah-blah-blah period" (one of my clients said this, not me). Or, is it simply meant to be a recurring entertainment feature not directly associated with any of the traditional events within a reception.

The former demands physical space, set-up time, and audio systems be in place well before the event for maximum attention focus. The latter can be placed in a dark corner on a small monitor or a large screen. the former demands more of my time and attention, therefore higher fees. The latter, is, of course, the opposite.

Often someone else builds the presentation. My fees are split. One fee to build the presentation. Another to stage it. In any case, the presentation system, whether it be large screen or small television, is supplied interms of both audio and video by me. I absolutely refuse to allow any other audio vendor to connect. That eliminates DJ's, who are not usually well versed regarding the technical aspects of their sound system. It also relieves the band's sound technican of trying to figure out how to introduce a new audio signal into the mix of an already maxed out system.

The end result, for me is one of two options. I can set up a kiosk type presentation early in the day and forget about it until I am ready to go home, or I gnash teeth with the wedding planner, caterer, the nightmarish maitr'd, and anyone else willing to "put up their dukes" to get the square footage I need to make the presentation happen.

hmm..

with these.. its a strange one..
for SDE's i do the editing and i hire my shooters.. i also shoot th morning stuff that i know i will use as opposed to sifting through piles of footage to see what works.. during teh ceremony, i sit at teh abck of the church and monitor my workers offering hand gestures and direction. Heyve all been briefed intently to a point of crying themselves into boredom.. lol..

anyways.. once im at each respective location, i do the editing while my shooters do what theyre supposed to.. It make the work easier to do it this way, an these kind of jobs, even though theyre higher paying, allow me to actually relax a little bit.. physically i mean...

at the reception, we always recomend the projections to occur AFTER the speeches and before the cake/first dance (if thats the sequence) this way we have everyones attention without even trying..

We set up the projector and only set up the screen at the last minute as we dont want people top get the gist of what were doing. Another thing i like to do is to use an available wall if its feasable.. saves alot of time

With regard to staff at venues, I have never had the issue Wal has had.. In fact quite the opposite..

As for pricing, i have a flat rate for projections, and then another ate depending on what they want projected.
If people throw pricing in my face, i just tell them straight out that theyre paying for my service, not soma backyard hack, and if they wnt to gamble their wedding on a hack, theyre more than welcome to do that. I then take note of who they are and if after their wedding they approach me to "fix" theyre footage (quite common actually), i dont bother dealing with them.

I’m almost at the point where I’m just about ready to phase weddings out of my video production business.

I enjoy shooting & editing weddings but the general public seems convinced that ALL WEDDING VIDEOS ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME, which is total bullshit.

They treat the process the same way as if they were buying a camera. They check the internet, go to the stores and end up purchasing from the cheapest outlet, because in the end, it’s the same exact product.

Every video production company has a different style and skill that is priced based on what their unique service is worth. These brides think they are soo smart and manipulative with their cut-throat negotiation tactics. The reality is, they are just pushing the good guys into the red. The videographers that started out with good intentions are turning into dicks because they are so sick of not making any money.

If you explain the technical differences in gear….they don’t understand.
If you explain the difference in editing style by showing them your demos, they don’t care…..as long as it’s in focus and the sound is decent, they seem to spend more time criticizing the brides teeth and hair than actually paying attention to your technique.

Perhaps this is a market that people should just cut their teeth in, and then get the hell out. 'nuf said.

Many brides have a pre-determined vision of a wedding video and you're right, they believe all wedding videos are pretty much the same. If you feel that you're wedding video is different then it's up to you to educate the bride.

A major part of your business is being able to sell. People will pay any amount for a product or service if they feel that they really want it. That is your job to make a person feel they really want your service.

If you're trying to sell wedding video production to a bride by relying on explainations of technical gear and having to explain differences in editing style because they are not obvious or you have a mental image of people falling into one negative category then you're right. You probably won't make any money and it's time to get the hell out.
Allen W

Ha! In a utopian society you would be totally correct with that statement. My experience has been slightly different. People want you to lowball the cheapest guy in town, and then they want you to include an extra camera at no additional charge. That has been my experience with wedding clients in LA.

They tell you that they don’t have a budget because they spent $1,500 on a photographer and they are only partially interested in hiring a videographer with the “left over” money. Like it’s not something they want to do, but something they are forced into doing.

Brides are often excited by the quality of my demos, but then they get in touch with someone willing to add in that extra camera or a crane at the reception, without even giving me the chance to counter the other guys offer.

Everything is so emotionally driven with these people.

I don’t seem to run into these problems with my other clients. I would like the opportunity to do your wedding but please don’t make me feel guilty because of it.

"If you explain the technical differences in gear….they don’t understand.
If you explain the difference in editing style by showing them your demos, they don’t care…..as long as it’s in focus and the sound is decent, they seem to spend more time criticizing the brides teeth and hair than actually paying attention to your technique."

well, heres teh thing.. i ahev brides ranging from high end models, through to skanky bushpigs.. when i show a demo, i suss out what kind of client they are, and if theyre all uppity and stuck up, i show them some pretty sexy brides.. if theyre down to earth and not too pleasant looking, i show them girls of equivalent looks.. (im being general here.. please no whinging abotu whats skanky anor whats good looking.. )
This way the girls can relate to what they see on screen and if i can make a skank look good, i usualy score teh deal, BUT its these people who im tryin to avoid as theyre usually the cheapskates.. but beggars cant be choosers so sometimes we take jobs we really dont want to...

The point here is to advise the viewer that what theyre seeing is from SOMEONE ELSES WEDDING... what happens at THEIR wedding may be totally different.. not many clients seem to fathom this..
This is only to show POSSIBILITES of how any given presentation may be created, again, not many brides seem to understand this and believe that what u show them is the "it"

As for the industry itself.. im sick of the shifty behaviour of other business sending emails asking for prices or wanting to have meetings to check out our studio, and being so vague that theyre obviously fakers. Im yet to meet a genuine client who didnt know their wedding date, let alone the guy saying one thing and the girl going off on a tangent. I hoenstly cant beleive some levels these people take to get a leg up
Appaling and utterly pathetic
Theres also the funny trend happenin here wtih companies claiming "full length edit of your wedding day" when in in fact they mean trimmed raw footage.. from there they offer a 10 minute edit and by the play on words, they mislead clients into thinking theyre getting a fully edited feature length presentation
In fact, with the way things are going here, im close to drawing up a FAQ on my site pertaining to this..

I find that Its not brides which have issues, its other businss who misinform these brides who are in need of a kick in the head
And nwo with the advent of HD coming to the fore and delivery options being made available, theyre really fekking it up for everyone..

Im a producer, not a teacher, and im sick of having to re-educate potential clients

"I’m almost at the point where I’m just about ready to phase weddings out of my video production business.

I enjoy shooting & editing weddings but the general public seems convinced that ALL WEDDING VIDEOS ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME, which is total bullshit."

Agreed.. thing is, those of us that ARE different get our work ripped off by those that CBF'd working out their own style.. I used to have online demos, and one guy here literally analysed my work and copied certainclips SCENE FOR SCENE.. i kid you not.. he shot them in the exact same way and edited it identically to the way i had demo'd online.. (thing is the original was slighlty different) This was to the point of using the same music, transition and colour schemes..
So its with behaviour liek this that makes me wonder why i keep going, when i consider that a photographer charges at least twice as much and has much less post production work..
And instead of buying another HDV camera, i ended up getting a canon5d..
With that, ive noticed attitude and expectation is far more appealing to me from the client and i dont have to haggle with prices like i do with video..