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Wedding / Event Videography Techniques
Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old February 20th, 2007, 08:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Kozak
Rick, What wires do you use to split a headphone jack with the DJ? Also, What is a Senn G2 Butt plug? A Transmitter?? Thanks!!
Here you go:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Yes, the Butt Plug is a transmitter and part of this setup:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

It's intended to mount to a handheld mic for wireless operations but you can also have it feed off the DJ's board. You'll need a 1/4" male to XLR male cable to attach it to the splitter above.

I'd also recommend one of these to cut down on the sound levels for those DJ's that insist on waking the dead:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search
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Old February 20th, 2007, 08:43 PM   #17
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Thank you for all the great information!!

I decided that I'm going to get the R09.

I currently have: 2 SENN G2 (No Butt Plug)
1 SENN ME865 handheld mic

What other equipment would you guys recommend that I get? Another Mic? Butt Plug? Splitter to attach Senn to R09?

I will be using this set up mainly at the wedding podium
and to capture the DJ. I will proable not hook-up to the DJ but rather use a mic stand/hang mic in front of speaker. Thanks
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Old February 21st, 2007, 02:58 AM   #18
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Edirol R09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Kozak
Thank you for all the great information!!
I decided that I'm going to get the R09. <clip>
Good luck with your Edirol R09. I considered getting one for a backup but this post slowed me down. Hopefully none of this relevant for you.

Regards, Michael


http://www.createdigitalmusic.com/20...-usb-recorder/

Just got off the phone with Edirol Tech Support. They confirmed that the R-09 will NOT support any external microphone needing 48 volt phantom power such as a standard condenser microphone. To quote from page 88 of the R-09 manual, “The R-09 does not support phantom powered microphones.” Instead, page 72 of the manual says that the R-09 will support “3.3 volt” “plug-in powered microphone (compact condenser microphone).” The Tech Support person confirmed this information, but couldn’t name any company that makes such microphones. Do you know of any?

Page 20 of the R-09 manual also notes that “some memory card types or memory cards from some manufacturers may not record or play back properly on the R-09.” Page 87 warns that some memory cards are too slow. The Tech Support person also confirmed this information, and recommended the expensive top-of-the-line SanDisk Extreme III SD memory cards. However, doing the math such recommendation seems “extreme”. For example, if 54 minutes of the most data intensive recording, i.e. a 24 bits/48 kHz WAV recording, fits on a 1 GB card then the write rate would be about 0.31 MB/sec (1,000 MB/3240 sec.). Even if you double the rate for stereo recording to 0.62 MB/sec, it would seem that most SD cards should handle that rate. The SanDisk Extreme III records up to 20 MB/sec, while the SanDisk Ultra II records up to 9 MB/sec. SanDisk doesn’t report the record rate on the SanDisk Standard SD memory card, but the similar Edge SD memory card records at 3 MB/sec. Has anyone reported negative experience with the standard SD cards?
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Old February 21st, 2007, 03:39 PM   #19
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Michael , Thanks for the reply. The PMD660 is looking a little better being able to use the 48v external mic. With going with the PMD660 what other equipment would you suggest to get for a wedding videographer? Mic? Cables? Disk? ETC... Thanks!!
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Old February 21st, 2007, 04:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Kozak
Michael , Thanks for the reply. The PMD660 is looking a little better being able to use the 48v external mic. With going with the PMD660 what other equipment would you suggest to get for a wedding videographer? Mic? Cables? Disk? ETC... Thanks!!
Al the PMD660 is a very good recorder.
But if you are going to place the unit on a mic stand and use a mic, then why not just use a good battery powered mic like the AT822 stareo mic, so no phantom power is needed.

If 48v phantom is that important to you then I might suggest you revisit the H4 again, as it will save you $200 over the PMD660. The PMD 660 is a better unit, but in your case it's probably overkill.

Also keep in mind that you will not be able to use the PMD660 recorder on a person with a lav mic. Just as is the case with the H4, it's too large and doesn't take a 1/8 mic input.

This is why I recommend the R09 if you are looking for one very well build versitile unit. I use it more than any of my recorders. But as I said earlier, there are times that call for the H4 (or PMD660), and as such I use it instead.

Also I believe that if you wanted to use a E604 drum mic, you don't need phantom pwer as well. The R09 does supply phantom power, like to power a lav mic if needed, just not 48v.

EDIT: Al just so you know, this is the recorder, mic stand setup that I use. I show it with the H4, but use the R09 in the same manner. Everything is on one mic stand that can be placed anywhere and at anytime I wish.

http://www.lvproductions.net/picts/Mic%20Set1.jpg
http://www.lvproductions.net/picts/Mic%20Set4.jpg
http://www.lvproductions.net/picts/Mic%20Set3.jpg
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Old February 21st, 2007, 09:33 PM   #21
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Do you know of any good battery powered mic's under $200. Also, where did you get your mic stand setup? Thanks!
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 04:48 AM   #22
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Mics, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Kozak
Michael , Thanks for the reply. The PMD660 is looking a little better being able to use the 48v external mic. With going with the PMD660 what other equipment would you suggest to get for a wedding videographer? Mic? Cables? Disk? ETC... Thanks!!
An excellent condensor mic for the money is the the Octava MK012A, which makes a great hyper-cardiod for applications such as a boom mic (be sure to get a Rycote Baby Ball Gag and Windjammer zepplin for windy outdoors applications). My favorite dynamic mic is the Heil PR40, especially good sound for broadcast applications (when the talent gets close to the mic). The ME2 or ME4 mic that come with the Sennheiser G2 Evolution are okay, but the Countryman B6 or E6 models are very pleasing to the ear. You can listen to these here: http://www.bridgehands.com/audio

Another poster seemed to imply a mini 1/8 inch microphone input had advantages, but unless portability is paramout I'd always want a *balanced* XLR input - it's easy enough to use an adapter if I'm connecting to a mini-jack mic like the Countryman E6 (although I normally wire mine directly to the Sennheiser G2 transmitter). For a wedding ceremony shoot, I'd use gaffer tape to afix the Octava MK012A to the existing mic on the lecturn gooseneck, run a 5 foot XLR cable to a Y splitter, with one end of the Y going into the Marantz PMD660 and the other end going to a second Sennheiser G2 transmitter - the receiver is connected to my locked down camera at the back of the church. This gives me two recordings, just in case something goes wrong. If, err when something goes wrong with whatever recorder you buy (and it may be a cockpit problem by you or someone else), you don't want be without the critical audio. So the first Sennheiser G2 transmitter is connected to the groom, with the second receiver going to the other channel of the camera in the back of the church. That leaves you one open channel on the PMD660 (or whatever you choose) - run a long XLR cable to either the singing/musical talent; with a balanced XLR, you can run the cable a few hundred feet if it's a huge church - don't even thing about running an unbalanced 1/8 inch mini cable even 50 feet! If there isn't any music talent, you could run a second mic channel to a stand where the couple take their vows (again, more backup diversity) - be sure to use gaffers tape on the altar so no one trips. When you get more than 2 sets of transceivers, two or more cameras, then you have more recording options...

I have no idea where your question about disks come into this (I don't use Sony mini-disks with my gear). However, if I'm doing an audio interview (no camera), then I'll record the talent on the Octava MK012A and I'll use my Heil PR40 with my lips almost kissing the mic (sounds best on top of it, but watch the plosives and silibance - off to the side a few inches, please). I could run these directly into the PMD660 but you know me, I want backup redundancy. So I run these mics into my Tapco USB-link portable mixer, with the USB going to my laptop - that's the only place I use a disk, albeit in my PC (recording backup MP3 or WAV using my PC software). The Tapco has 1/4 inch outputs, so I use 1/4 inch Tip-Ring to XLR cable adapters into the PMD660.

Whatever you buy and configuration you use, let me stress a few points. Whenever you can't/don't monitor the audio, you're taking a gamble - make sure you can afford it if and when you lose (nobody wants to end up being on Judge Judy's TV show, or worse). So whenever we can monitor (as the transceiver channel going into our camera), absolutely do it. I love my Sennheiser CX300 earbuds - the audio is absolutely awesome and they are incredibly comfortable for an amazingly low price; I've fallen asleep in them listening to my iPod and find I can hear high frequencies hiss, etc that just doesn't come through on headphones cans that cost four times as much. Also, it looks much less geeky to the wedding guests when the videographer isn't wearing a set of massive headphones - although one could argue that on the dance floor at the reception the cans have their place when the DJ cranks up the music to 20 dB above the threshold of pain!

Okay, time to shove on...

Good luck, Michael
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 08:14 AM   #23
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[QUOTE=Another poster seemed to imply a mini 1/8 inch microphone input had advantages, but unless portability is paramout I'd always want a *balanced* XLR input

I have no idea where your question about disks come into this (I don't use Sony mini-disks with my gear). However, if I'm doing an audio interview (no camera), then I'll record the talent on the Octava MK012A and I'll use my Heil PR40 with my lips almost kissing the mic (sounds best on top of it, but watch the plosives and silibance - off to the side a few inches, please). I could run these directly into the PMD660 but you know me, I want backup redundancy. So I run these mics into my Tapco USB-link portable mixer, with the USB going to my laptop - that's the only place I use a disk, albeit in my PC (recording backup MP3 or WAV using my PC software). The Tapco has 1/4 inch outputs, so I use 1/4 inch Tip-Ring to XLR cable adapters into the PMD660.

Whatever you buy and configuration you use, let me stress a few points. Whenever you can't/don't monitor the audio, you're taking a gamble - make sure you can afford it if and when you lose (nobody wants to end up being on Judge Judy's TV show, or worse). So whenever we can monitor (as the transceiver channel going into our camera), absolutely do it. I love my Sennheiser CX300 earbuds - the audio is absolutely awesome and they are incredibly comfortable for an amazingly low price; I've fallen asleep in them listening to my iPod and find I can hear high frequencies hiss, etc that just doesn't come through on headphones cans that cost four times as much. Also, it looks much less geeky to the wedding guests when the videographer isn't wearing a set of massive headphones - although one could argue that on the dance floor at the reception the cans have their place when the DJ cranks up the music to 20 dB above the threshold of pain!

Okay, time to shove on...

Good luck, Michael[/QUOTE]
"Another poster seemed to imply a mini 1/8 inch microphone input had advantages, but unless portability is paramout I'd always want a *balanced* XLR input"
I prefer balanced XLR's as well as the lockability of the connection, but if you are doing a short cable run, under 6 feet, then using an unbalanced connection isn't a problem. If you are going to have to run cable a certain length that would need gaffers tape then you probably are running a longer cable run, so yes balanced XLR ot TRS is the way to go.

Agree 100% about monitoring the receoded audio, and I do a similar thing that you do with a wireless feed from the recorder to a camera. I take one feed from a wireless on the groom, and also a wireless backup feed from my H4's "Line Out" or R09's "Headphone" port. This way I can monitor the audio that the H4/R09 is recording and have sync backup audio on tape.

I really like the earbuds that you posted and may pick them up. I currently monitor my sound with a Sennheiser closed back set of cans, that do make me look like I'm directing air traffic on the runway. But I find that I need the sound isolation for loud reception work.

If anyone haere has a good recommendation for a good set of noise cancling ear buds, then I'm all ears. =)
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 08:27 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Kozak
Do you know of any good battery powered mic's under $200. Also, where did you get your mic stand setup? Thanks!
My Audio Rig is as follows:
Recorder: Samson Zoom H4 (also use Edirol R-09 not pictured)
Mic: AT822 stereo mic plugged into recorder and Samson wireless handheld with Micro32 transmitter
Mic Stand and Bracket: (stand) Atlas TEB-E (bracket for recorder) windtech add on clamp (MSA1)
Universal Double Microphone T Support: Sabra ST-2
Mic stand adptor for recorder: Edirol OP-R09M MIC STAND ADAPTOR f/ R-09


Al if you get an R09, then I would recommend picking up the additional R-09 case (OP-R09C), that has a 1/4 thread on the bottom. This lets me mount the R-09 to other places like a mic stand (Using the OP-R09M Mic Stand Adaptor) or just use the supplied mini tripod to place on a table top. Maybe I can rig up a way to attach a belt clip to the case as well.

OP-R09C:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

OP-R09M:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Atlas TEB-E Mic Stand:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Windtech MSA1 Clamp:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 08:38 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Kozak
Do you know of any good battery powered mic's under $200. Also, where did you get your mic stand setup? Thanks!
Al here's my list of the mic stand setup that I showed you. Keep in mind this would only work with a small recorder like the R09 or H4. It may work with the PMD660, I'm not sure.
If you use a heavier device then you would want a mic stand that is weighted at the bottom to prevent tipping. But main purpose for this setup is to be small and stealthy for quick setup and breakdown.

I use other setup configurations for larger scale audio recordings where I use my PSC Promix filed mixer, wireless, and recorders. When I add the Edirol R4 later this year, then I would remove the mixer from the setup and use just the recorder and 4 audio feeds into it. More compact, but longer cable runs and more wireless feeds would be involved.

My Audio Rig is as follows:
Recorder: Samson Zoom H4 (also use Edirol R-09 not pictured)
Mic: AT822 stereo mic plugged into recorder and Samson wireless handheld with Micro32 transmitter
Mic Stand and Bracket: (stand) Atlas TEB-E (bracket for recorder) windtech add on clamp (MSA1)
Universal Double Microphone T Support: Sabra ST-2
Mic stand adptor for recorder: Edirol OP-R09M MIC STAND ADAPTOR f/ R-09


Al if you get an R09, then I would recommend picking up the additional R-09 case (OP-R09C), that has a 1/4 thread on the bottom. This lets me mount the R-09 to other places like a mic stand (Using the OP-R09M Mic Stand Adaptor) or just use the supplied mini tripod to place on a table top. Maybe I can rig up a way to attach a belt clip to the case as well.

I puchased all of it through B&H below. I purchased 4 mic stands as I need them for various setups, different than this one, for when I use my field mixer and long taped down cable runs.

OP-R09C:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

OP-R09M:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Atlas TEB-E Mic Stand:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Windtech MSA1 Clamp:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Sabra ST-2 Double Mic Support:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search
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