Captures from my first wedding (60i mode)

Glen Elliott · May 20th, 2003, 04:45 AM

http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/LazerBlueP5/groom3.jpg

I dunno though guys it looked good in Photoshop but much darker in Internet Explorer. We may never be able to show an accurate color correction on a medium as such. Stephen is right....we would have to send a flattened PSD file with an embedded ICC profile to retain the accuracy of what "WE" see on our screens.

Zac Stein · May 20th, 2003, 05:15 AM

Alex,

Could you please explain what you did in Vegas to that photo.

Zac

Alex Knappenberger · May 20th, 2003, 05:27 AM

Sure, Not too much at all. First I applied color curves, usually I would use one of my favorite custom presets, but I had to adjust it especially just for that one, because it appeared to have lots of greenish shadows...you want to make that famous slight "S curve"...then I just applied the HSL Adjust, with saturation all the way at 2.0 (Note: Sometimes it comes out crappy with the saturation cranked up, it all depends on the shot, especially if theres lots of red in it)...

This one was also done in nothing but Vegas, incase you want that "dreamy soft" look...heh:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/169091/groom2.jpg

Zac Stein · May 20th, 2003, 05:31 AM

HAHAH alex,

that looks like a soapy! or even worse a b-grade porno.

Poor guy, i would hate to have my photo plastered around the internet with such a bad haircut, but i guess good info is coming out of it.

Alex to create the famous s-curve did you apply a a single anchor point in the middle and adjust the handles, or 2 points around 1/3 of the way from the bottom and stop, and move the top one up slight and the bottom one down slightly?

zac

Russell Pond · May 20th, 2003, 09:22 AM

Alex, in your dreamy version, did you have some sort of vignette mask, because the outer edges seem darker than the middle? I was curious if you masked it somehow to create that vignette look.

Russell

John Locke · May 20th, 2003, 10:02 AM

Kudos, Alex!

I'm impressed, to say the least. Would you mind posting a screenshot of your "S" curve settings and the HSL.

Wayne Orr · May 20th, 2003, 11:52 AM

Glenn, I think you may need to change your "color settings" for RGB work. Again, you really need a professional video monitor to see the real colors for this kind of work. Obviously, young Alex has no problem with posting his work on the web, and neither do I. I truly believe you are being led astray by your computer monitor.

Yang Wen · May 20th, 2003, 12:29 PM

nah, I'd say screw the color correction, and tweak your cam as much as you can. CC is a waste of time if you can get away without using it. I've shot beautiful outdoor scenes with the inferior Panasonic EZ30U (will post pics soon). I didn't need any sort of color correction. The sharpness, color rendition all seems to be much better than the above DVX100 pics.

Wayne Orr · May 20th, 2003, 01:18 PM

Well, Wen, you are correct that many video projects go to air straight from the camera, with no tweaking done to the tapes. Sometimes that's a good thing, and sometimes not. But as a matter of fact, all motion pictures go through color correction, or "timing" as a way to improve the image and create a consistent "look" throughout a film. I'm sure they don't consider it a "waste of time." And more video projects are getting serious color correction before they hit the air, as evidenced by many narrative projects seen on cable television. (Think, "The New Detectives," "Histories Mysteries," etc.)

I think what we are commenting on, is Glenn's frame grabs from his first wedding shoot, and what ways he might be able to improve his future shoots with his DVX100, based on an analysis of those stills. I would be happy to look at stills from your project, but I would like to see them in your thread. I don't really think they belong here, but that's just my opinion.

Alex Knappenberger · May 20th, 2003, 01:38 PM

John, Here's some screenshots...

This one is the particular S curve deal I used in the wedding photo in this post, it needed to be "custom" because of the weird green shadows...and it wasn't too extreme either...

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...urvesgroom.jpg

And here's a screenshot of my standard S color curve preset in Vegas, that I usually use for everything...it's a little more "extreme"...if you take away some of the blue, especially at the high end, it gets more of a yellow overcast, which I also like...

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...olorcurves.jpg

Russell, Yeah, I applied a "bump map" to it, with the settings set to give it that look -- it kind of darkens the edges, but it's more feathered then anything, you can make it as extreme as you want or not apply it at all. I made it as soft as I could...

Incase your curious on how to do the "dreamy" one, here's the steps, in Vegas:

1. Apply color curves to the video, along with the "max saturation" preset, under HSL adjust (you may need to take the saturation down, a little bit, if it looks crappy, it really depends on the footage..)...

2. Make a new video track, and copy the original video stream, and paste it in the new video track, and set the optacity to 50% to the video in the new track (or the upper track)...you have to make sure it's perfectly synced up too...

3. Then, to the bottom track only, add a Guassian Blur, adjust as you like, but I find that both horizontal and verticle set at 0.050, works the best.

4. I usually apply a special bump map setting to BOTH of the tracks, to give it that blurred edge deal look...

Oh yeah, be prepared to give it some mad rendering time, depending on the speed of your computer -- with all these filters and crap, it takes many seconds per frame, atleast on my sluggish computer...

Glen Elliott · May 20th, 2003, 02:00 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Orr : Glenn, I think you may need to change your "color settings" for RGB work. Again, you really need a professional video monitor to see the real colors for this kind of work. Obviously, young Alex has no problem with posting his work on the web, and neither do I. I truly believe you are being led astray by your computer monitor. -->>>

To be honest with you I don't know what you mean by "Alex and yourself having no problem with posting work on the web". I don't think my work looks any less. In fact Alex was right about the tweaks you made regarding the shadow areas having a green cast, and Alex's renditions were highly over saturated and far from accurate. Granted that may have been his intention, however I wouldn't venture to believe it's an inferior monitor with bad color calibration. Before videography I was strictly an illustrator and graphic designer....thus those are actually my strong points. It would be pure stupitity to run on a monitor that is not calibrated correctly. It may be your monitor that isn't calibrated correctly. My Sony Trinitron E540 has been painstakingly calibrated in both Adobe Gamma and Display Mate.
If you don't see the green cast on the shadow areas of your rendition, I'd go back and check your settings. lol

Wayne Orr · May 20th, 2003, 02:22 PM

Yes I see the green. As I said, it was a quick fix. You seem to be the only one who is not seeing his work on the web the way it looks on his monitor. I had the outrageous notion I might be able to help you. Sorry if I offended you. Nice talking to you Glenn.

Yang Wen · May 20th, 2003, 05:56 PM

http://www.ywenzstudios.com/PanaEZ30cap.jpg

Here is an unmodifed snapshot of a video shot with the PanaEZ30 that I was talking about earlier. Just to show how far an image can go with some in-camera adjust ment. This setting would look much much nicer on the DVX100. The girl came out a little bit dark because she was sitting in the shadow.

Glen Elliott · May 20th, 2003, 05:57 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Orr : You seem to be the only one who is not seeing his work on the web the way it looks on his monitor. -->>>

HUH?

Glen Elliott · May 20th, 2003, 06:32 PM

Nevermind...I got it. duh

Yeah I wonder why that is? Have to check and see if Netscape does the same thing or if it's IE specific.

May 20th, 2003, 10:02 AM	#21
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Kudos, Alex! I'm impressed, to say the least. Would you mind posting a screenshot of your "S" curve settings and the HSL. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

May 20th, 2003, 11:52 AM	#22
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	Glenn, I think you may need to change your "color settings" for RGB work. Again, you really need a professional video monitor to see the real colors for this kind of work. Obviously, young Alex has no problem with posting his work on the web, and neither do I. I truly believe you are being led astray by your computer monitor. __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

May 20th, 2003, 01:18 PM	#24
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	Well, Wen, you are correct that many video projects go to air straight from the camera, with no tweaking done to the tapes. Sometimes that's a good thing, and sometimes not. But as a matter of fact, all motion pictures go through color correction, or "timing" as a way to improve the image and create a consistent "look" throughout a film. I'm sure they don't consider it a "waste of time." And more video projects are getting serious color correction before they hit the air, as evidenced by many narrative projects seen on cable television. (Think, "The New Detectives," "Histories Mysteries," etc.) I think what we are commenting on, is Glenn's frame grabs from his first wedding shoot, and what ways he might be able to improve his future shoots with his DVX100, based on an analysis of those stills. I would be happy to look at stills from your project, but I would like to see them in your thread. I don't really think they belong here, but that's just my opinion. __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

May 20th, 2003, 02:22 PM	#27
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	Yes I see the green. As I said, it was a quick fix. You seem to be the only one who is not seeing his work on the web the way it looks on his monitor. I had the outrageous notion I might be able to help you. Sorry if I offended you. Nice talking to you Glenn. __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

May 20th, 2003, 04:45 AM	#16
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/LazerBlueP5/groom3.jpg I dunno though guys it looked good in Photoshop but much darker in Internet Explorer. We may never be able to show an accurate color correction on a medium as such. Stephen is right....we would have to send a flattened PSD file with an embedded ICC profile to retain the accuracy of what "WE" see on our screens.

May 20th, 2003, 05:15 AM	#17
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	Alex, Could you please explain what you did in Vegas to that photo. Zac

May 20th, 2003, 05:27 AM	#18
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Sure, Not too much at all. First I applied color curves, usually I would use one of my favorite custom presets, but I had to adjust it especially just for that one, because it appeared to have lots of greenish shadows...you want to make that famous slight "S curve"...then I just applied the HSL Adjust, with saturation all the way at 2.0 (Note: Sometimes it comes out crappy with the saturation cranked up, it all depends on the shot, especially if theres lots of red in it)... This one was also done in nothing but Vegas, incase you want that "dreamy soft" look...heh: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/169091/groom2.jpg

May 20th, 2003, 05:31 AM	#19
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	HAHAH alex, that looks like a soapy! or even worse a b-grade porno. Poor guy, i would hate to have my photo plastered around the internet with such a bad haircut, but i guess good info is coming out of it. Alex to create the famous s-curve did you apply a a single anchor point in the middle and adjust the handles, or 2 points around 1/3 of the way from the bottom and stop, and move the top one up slight and the bottom one down slightly? zac

May 20th, 2003, 09:22 AM	#20
Russell Pond Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Euless, Texas Posts: 36	Alex, in your dreamy version, did you have some sort of vignette mask, because the outer edges seem darker than the middle? I was curious if you masked it somehow to create that vignette look. Russell

May 20th, 2003, 12:29 PM	#23
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	nah, I'd say screw the color correction, and tweak your cam as much as you can. CC is a waste of time if you can get away without using it. I've shot beautiful outdoor scenes with the inferior Panasonic EZ30U (will post pics soon). I didn't need any sort of color correction. The sharpness, color rendition all seems to be much better than the above DVX100 pics.

May 20th, 2003, 01:38 PM	#25
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	John, Here's some screenshots... This one is the particular S curve deal I used in the wedding photo in this post, it needed to be "custom" because of the weird green shadows...and it wasn't too extreme either... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...urvesgroom.jpg And here's a screenshot of my standard S color curve preset in Vegas, that I usually use for everything...it's a little more "extreme"...if you take away some of the blue, especially at the high end, it gets more of a yellow overcast, which I also like... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...olorcurves.jpg Russell, Yeah, I applied a "bump map" to it, with the settings set to give it that look -- it kind of darkens the edges, but it's more feathered then anything, you can make it as extreme as you want or not apply it at all. I made it as soft as I could... Incase your curious on how to do the "dreamy" one, here's the steps, in Vegas: 1. Apply color curves to the video, along with the "max saturation" preset, under HSL adjust (you may need to take the saturation down, a little bit, if it looks crappy, it really depends on the footage..)... 2. Make a new video track, and copy the original video stream, and paste it in the new video track, and set the optacity to 50% to the video in the new track (or the upper track)...you have to make sure it's perfectly synced up too... 3. Then, to the bottom track only, add a Guassian Blur, adjust as you like, but I find that both horizontal and verticle set at 0.050, works the best. 4. I usually apply a special bump map setting to BOTH of the tracks, to give it that blurred edge deal look... Oh yeah, be prepared to give it some mad rendering time, depending on the speed of your computer -- with all these filters and crap, it takes many seconds per frame, atleast on my sluggish computer...

May 20th, 2003, 02:00 PM	#26
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	<<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Orr : Glenn, I think you may need to change your "color settings" for RGB work. Again, you really need a professional video monitor to see the real colors for this kind of work. Obviously, young Alex has no problem with posting his work on the web, and neither do I. I truly believe you are being led astray by your computer monitor. -->>> To be honest with you I don't know what you mean by "Alex and yourself having no problem with posting work on the web". I don't think my work looks any less. In fact Alex was right about the tweaks you made regarding the shadow areas having a green cast, and Alex's renditions were highly over saturated and far from accurate. Granted that may have been his intention, however I wouldn't venture to believe it's an inferior monitor with bad color calibration. Before videography I was strictly an illustrator and graphic designer....thus those are actually my strong points. It would be pure stupitity to run on a monitor that is not calibrated correctly. It may be your monitor that isn't calibrated correctly. My Sony Trinitron E540 has been painstakingly calibrated in both Adobe Gamma and Display Mate. If you don't see the green cast on the shadow areas of your rendition, I'd go back and check your settings. lol

May 20th, 2003, 05:56 PM	#28
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	http://www.ywenzstudios.com/PanaEZ30cap.jpg Here is an unmodifed snapshot of a video shot with the PanaEZ30 that I was talking about earlier. Just to show how far an image can go with some in-camera adjust ment. This setting would look much much nicer on the DVX100. The girl came out a little bit dark because she was sitting in the shadow.

May 20th, 2003, 05:57 PM	#29
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	<<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Orr : You seem to be the only one who is not seeing his work on the web the way it looks on his monitor. -->>> HUH?

May 20th, 2003, 06:32 PM	#30
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Nevermind...I got it. duh Yeah I wonder why that is? Have to check and see if Netscape does the same thing or if it's IE specific.