How does Douglas Spotted Eagle do this? at DVinfo.net

Simon Denny · August 7th, 2007, 02:10 AM

How does Douglas Spotted Eagle do this?

This is a taken from Vegas 6 Editing workshop book page, 351 as a tip.

Before starting any color correction processes, be sure you've got exposure set correctly.My method is to convert the image to greyscale using the B/W filter, and then using Levels to adjust the exposure. Once exposure is correct, then you'll want to remove the B/W filter.

This has been bugging me for some time as i just cant get it? Maybe i have it and dont know that i'm doing it correctly.

Cheers
Simon

Edward Troxel · August 7th, 2007, 07:16 AM

Simon, I moved this to it's own separate thread.

Here's a different description of the same process given by Spot:

1. Make the clip B/W (using the Black and White effect)
2. Open Waveform monitor (set to Studio RGB)
3. Add a Levels Filter
4. Use the levels filter to bring up highlights or bring down blacks or both.

Once done, you'll turn off or remove the B/W filter. You can also toggle the B/W filter to see the changes you've made so far.

You might also want to look at the Color Correct DVD available at the VASST site. I'll let Spot get into any more details as needed to his procedure.

Simon Denny · August 7th, 2007, 09:38 PM

Thanks Edward.

Regards
Simon

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 7th, 2007, 09:41 PM

Nope, you published it pretty well perfectly, Edward!

Simon Denny · August 7th, 2007, 09:55 PM

Would i need to add a new levels filter for each color?
Or just the one filter for overall exposure?

What i tend to do is see if i'm peaking over the 100 mark is so then i would lower the overall levels out, so now eveything sits about the 80 to 90 mark.
This does seem to reduce the overall brightness but not by much and i like the look it gives.I leave Gamma just as it is.

I have been using the Broadcast filter to keep everything legal but i find the look a bit harsh. With levels my footage seems to come alive abit.

Does this seem to be on the right track.

Cheers
Simon

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 7th, 2007, 10:02 PM

Levels isn't for "bringing things alive" but rather to repair exposure, set the high and low points of the vid...but after saying that, your workflow is correct, yes.
No, you don't need levels for each color, this is why we measure in Luma mode, as it's about light, not color.
you want your brightest point at 100 and your darkest point at 16 on the scope.

Simon Denny · August 8th, 2007, 04:45 AM

Thanks Douglas, I appreciate your time.
One last question.
Do you mean 16% on the Waveform scope? with Video Scopes Setting set to RGB (16-225)?

I get a little confused with how black blacks should be as i would normally leave them as they are.

Regards
Simon

Glenn Chan · August 8th, 2007, 11:17 AM

Simon, try this tutorial... it explains it with pictures...
http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?i...0-90d2f8de9fc1

Simon Denny · August 8th, 2007, 02:25 PM

Thanks Glenn,
I forgot about that tutorial which i have read several times before.

Sometimes to much info gets you side tracked.

Regards
Simon

Bill Ravens · August 9th, 2007, 07:44 AM

I'd like to add 2 comments to this discussion, if I may.
1-I prefer using the Sony Curves plugin, and adjust the head and toe of the curve to set my luma, while watching the waveform monitor. I have the waveform monitor set for studio RGB. This means RGB16 is zero percent in the WFM scale and RGB235 is 100% on the WFM scale.
2-A common mistake, and I catch myself all the time on this one, is that the scale on the Sony WFM is in %, not in absolute IRE value. That is to say, 16% is NOT 16 IRE. 16% means (235-16)*.16=35 IRE. On the other hand, NTSC pedestal of 7.5 IRE, would be 7.5/(235-16)*100=13%. I really wish Sony would re-write the vertical scale on their WFM to read in IRE values. Display in % is confusing.

Glenn Chan · August 9th, 2007, 11:39 AM

I do agree that the WFM in Vegas is a little weird and confusing.

You could check the "7.5 IRE setup" setting in the settings for it... this will put black level at 7.5 on the scopes. HOWEVER, the scopes don't have a 7.5 marking... which is screwed up. You also can't tell if this setting is on or not.

If you leave the 7.5 setting off, then it kind of resembles a digital waveform monitor... some of them put black level at 0 on the scope.

Derek Grimes · August 17th, 2007, 07:48 PM

Just my 2 cents...get the color correcting DVD by Glen and DSE. Well worth its weight in gold!!!

August 7th, 2007, 02:10 AM	#1
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	How does Douglas Spotted Eagle do this? How does Douglas Spotted Eagle do this? This is a taken from Vegas 6 Editing workshop book page, 351 as a tip. Before starting any color correction processes, be sure you've got exposure set correctly.My method is to convert the image to greyscale using the B/W filter, and then using Levels to adjust the exposure. Once exposure is correct, then you'll want to remove the B/W filter. This has been bugging me for some time as i just cant get it? Maybe i have it and dont know that i'm doing it correctly. Cheers Simon

August 7th, 2007, 07:16 AM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Simon, I moved this to it's own separate thread. Here's a different description of the same process given by Spot: 1. Make the clip B/W (using the Black and White effect) 2. Open Waveform monitor (set to Studio RGB) 3. Add a Levels Filter 4. Use the levels filter to bring up highlights or bring down blacks or both. Once done, you'll turn off or remove the B/W filter. You can also toggle the B/W filter to see the changes you've made so far. You might also want to look at the Color Correct DVD available at the VASST site. I'll let Spot get into any more details as needed to his procedure. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

August 7th, 2007, 09:41 PM	#4
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Nope, you published it pretty well perfectly, Edward! __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

August 7th, 2007, 10:02 PM	#6
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Levels isn't for "bringing things alive" but rather to repair exposure, set the high and low points of the vid...but after saying that, your workflow is correct, yes. No, you don't need levels for each color, this is why we measure in Luma mode, as it's about light, not color. you want your brightest point at 100 and your darkest point at 16 on the scope. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

August 17th, 2007, 07:48 PM	#12
Derek Grimes Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: nashville, TN Posts: 107	Get The Vasst Dvd Just my 2 cents...get the color correcting DVD by Glen and DSE. Well worth its weight in gold!!! __________________ tayproductions

August 7th, 2007, 09:38 PM	#3
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	Thanks Edward. Regards Simon

August 7th, 2007, 09:55 PM	#5
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	Would i need to add a new levels filter for each color? Or just the one filter for overall exposure? What i tend to do is see if i'm peaking over the 100 mark is so then i would lower the overall levels out, so now eveything sits about the 80 to 90 mark. This does seem to reduce the overall brightness but not by much and i like the look it gives.I leave Gamma just as it is. I have been using the Broadcast filter to keep everything legal but i find the look a bit harsh. With levels my footage seems to come alive abit. Does this seem to be on the right track. Cheers Simon

August 8th, 2007, 04:45 AM	#7
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	Thanks Douglas, I appreciate your time. One last question. Do you mean 16% on the Waveform scope? with Video Scopes Setting set to RGB (16-225)? I get a little confused with how black blacks should be as i would normally leave them as they are. Regards Simon

August 8th, 2007, 11:17 AM	#8
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Simon, try this tutorial... it explains it with pictures... http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?i...0-90d2f8de9fc1

August 8th, 2007, 02:25 PM	#9
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	Thanks Glenn, I forgot about that tutorial which i have read several times before. Sometimes to much info gets you side tracked. Regards Simon

August 9th, 2007, 07:44 AM	#10
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I'd like to add 2 comments to this discussion, if I may. 1-I prefer using the Sony Curves plugin, and adjust the head and toe of the curve to set my luma, while watching the waveform monitor. I have the waveform monitor set for studio RGB. This means RGB16 is zero percent in the WFM scale and RGB235 is 100% on the WFM scale. 2-A common mistake, and I catch myself all the time on this one, is that the scale on the Sony WFM is in %, not in absolute IRE value. That is to say, 16% is NOT 16 IRE. 16% means (235-16).16=35 IRE. On the other hand, NTSC pedestal of 7.5 IRE, would be 7.5/(235-16)100=13%. I really wish Sony would re-write the vertical scale on their WFM to read in IRE values. Display in % is confusing.

August 9th, 2007, 11:39 AM	#11
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	I do agree that the WFM in Vegas is a little weird and confusing. You could check the "7.5 IRE setup" setting in the settings for it... this will put black level at 7.5 on the scopes. HOWEVER, the scopes don't have a 7.5 marking... which is screwed up. You also can't tell if this setting is on or not. If you leave the 7.5 setting off, then it kind of resembles a digital waveform monitor... some of them put black level at 0 on the scope.