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Old September 18th, 2007, 12:54 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Gladwell View Post
Graham, if you're still following this thread, would you do us a favor?

Would you, please, post the original images in their "raw" state, without any correction or changes, other than one in 8-bit and one in 32-bit using the 2.222 mode?

Thanks!
Your wish, Jay, is my command.

They ALL look the same to me? What is being ascertained by me doing this? Please let me in on the secret.

ALL 3 options: 8bit - 32bit Video 2.222 - 32bit 1.00 Linear - NONE having any FX-ing.

Grazie
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Old September 18th, 2007, 12:57 PM   #32
 
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1. What is the source?
2. Depending on the source, it's quite easy to see what's being done with the image.
3. Where are the images?
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Old September 18th, 2007, 01:03 PM   #33
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Attaching is going wierd on me . .

Trying again.

G
Attached Thumbnails
32-bit and 8-bit comparison ..-8bit-no-fx.png   32-bit and 8-bit comparison ..-32bit-no-fx-linear.png  

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Old September 18th, 2007, 01:06 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle View Post
1. What is the source?
2. Depending on the source, it's quite easy to see what's being done with the image.
3. Where are the images?

1 - Source - PAL SD

2 - Eh? I can tell you what I've done?

3 - I tried to upload 3 at once. Now trying to do one at a time.

Regards

Grazie
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Old September 18th, 2007, 01:10 PM   #35
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Trying the last one . . seesshh .. "UPLOAD" is telling me I have already loaded it?

Where?
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Old September 18th, 2007, 01:20 PM   #36
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Jay? can I give you this last one for YOU to load? I can't load it!!!

I've tried 3 times now, and I'm being told I have ALREADY uploaded it!! The WIERDNESS is that the UPLOAD manage attachments is telling me it is already loaded - ERROR - but I have even renamed it?!???

Help!

Grazie
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Old September 18th, 2007, 01:21 PM   #37
 
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There is no difference when dealing with DV. This is why I created the HDV projects for you to compare.
You'll see a diff in SD when you color correct and push color; the banding normally associated with pushed DV/8bit disappears.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 01:27 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle View Post
There is no difference when dealing with DV. This is why I created the HDV projects for you to compare.
You'll see a diff in SD when you color correct and push color; the banding normally associated with pushed DV/8bit disappears.
Exactly! What I said was that AFTER doing Fx-ing, and compared to 8bit, the 32bit results just lept out at me. And yes colour push and BANDING will be "smoothed".

It was this extraordinary result I got from using 32bit applied to my Fx-ing that thrilled me.

Eh?

Regards

Grazie
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Old September 18th, 2007, 01:56 PM   #39
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Quote:
ALL 3 options: 8bit - 32bit Video 2.222 - 32bit 1.00 Linear - NONE having any FX-ing.
Oh, my mistake about the levels differences being the cause of why things look different.

For DV footage, flipping between a 32-bit (2.222 or 1.000) and 8-bit project won't cause the codec behaviour to change like with HDV footage.

However, flipping between 2.222 compositing gamma and 1.000 will cause the behaviour of the filters to change since they are being fed with linear light values instead of gamma-corrected. That should be what you're seeing. If you flip into 1.000 compositing gamma it should look extremely similar to 8-bit.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 05:58 PM   #40
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Bernard View Post
Your wish, Jay, is my command.

They ALL look the same to me? What is being ascertained by me doing this? Please let me in on the secret.

ALL 3 options: 8bit - 32bit Video 2.222 - 32bit 1.00 Linear - NONE having any FX-ing.

Grazie
That's what I wanted to see. Somewhere, I read something that led me to believe that the 32bit alone added some visual improvement. Not having it installed yet, makes all this most difficult to grasp.

Thank you, Graham, for your effort and patience!
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Old September 19th, 2007, 02:18 AM   #41
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That's what I wanted to see.
My pleasure, dear boy! My pleasure.

Actually, not wanting to bring further rain on me, from those who know far more than I will ever know, I can see a very small difference in the RAW. The PINK blush in 8 is not present in 32. The detail and colour "hold", appears to me, at least, more restrained and exacting in 32 RAW. Do have a closer look at it. Colours in 8 seem to be "creeping" not in 32.

OK - When Glenn first put up his Tute, I ran to it; experimented and got this eyeful of possibilities; wanted to share my experience with it and hopefully entice others to post their reactions to it with maybe some of their examples.

My problem now is to determine - post-enthusiasm - just when and WHERE I would apply this. I say this, 'cos my CPU takes a big hit from all the maths going on.

Jay, you should really download and demo V8. At this point in time where would you be standing on the UP Offer price?

Grazie
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Old September 19th, 2007, 06:41 AM   #42
 
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Originally Posted by Graham Bernard View Post
My pleasure, dear boy! My pleasure.

Actually, not wanting to bring further rain on me, from those who know far more than I will ever know, I can see a very small difference in the RAW. The PINK blush in 8 is not present in 32. The detail and colour "hold", appears to me, at least, more restrained and exacting in 32 RAW. Do have a closer look at it. Colours in 8 seem to be "creeping" not in 32.

OK - When Glenn first put up his Tute, I ran to it; experimented and got this eyeful of possibilities; wanted to share my experience with it and hopefully entice others to post their reactions to it with maybe some of their examples.

My problem now is to determine - post-enthusiasm - just when and WHERE I would apply this. I say this, 'cos my CPU takes a big hit from all the maths going on.

Jay, you should really download and demo V8. At this point in time where would you be standing on the UP Offer price?

Grazie
I truly apprecite your follow-up. You're approach to this is not all that different from what mine would be. It appears that you and I follow a similar track in such things.

I have bought V8! I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of a new computer so I can install it. The one I currently have simply isn't powerful enough to run the latest version--it doesn't even meet the "minimum system requirements."

The answer to your dilemma as to when/where to apply the 32bit seems to be the linchpin in all this new capability with V8.
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Old September 19th, 2007, 08:59 AM   #43
 
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I posted my opinion on workflow soon after V8 was released. It seems most people thought I was uninformed. Nevertheless, I'll say again, 32 bit floating point should be used whenever there is color correction and/or FX that work with the color definitions. This is true even for 8-bit final renders to reduce banding. A beneficial side effect is increased definition in the shadows and highlights, altho', admittedly, this is a barely noticeable effect. No one has asked what dithering, if any, Sony applies when converting a 32 bit process back to 8-bit. I assume dithering is applied.
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Old September 19th, 2007, 12:56 PM   #44
 
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Bill, I've not ignored your opinion, I simply have a hard time trying to imagine such things without having the working application in front of me to try it.

Like I told Graham elsewhere, once I get everything up and running, I'll probably be a pain in the tooter to the likes of you and him.

That's no reflection on other people like Glenn Chan. He just talks so darn far over my head, it makes my neck hurt. That's my fault, not his!
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Old September 27th, 2007, 08:56 PM   #45
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The manual says 32bit enhances x.v.color editing when applying transitions...

I have an HC7, can someone post a vectorscope of 32bit with x.v.color?
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