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Old September 27th, 2007, 04:56 AM   #1
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Border round a PIP

I've got two video reels, one of which is a PIP on the other, but I want to put a border around the PIP. How do I do this? When I try adding a 'Sony Border' as an effect it just puts it around the whole frame...
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Old September 27th, 2007, 05:22 AM   #2
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After you add the Border FX, click the arrow (labeled Pre/Post Toggle) next to the word "Border" so that it's pointing left instead of right.
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Old September 27th, 2007, 05:23 AM   #3
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Add a new track, Fullscreen your crop in the shot you want PIP-ed, apply a Sony Border, then use the track motion on the new track to size to the dimensions of the PIP.
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Old September 27th, 2007, 06:33 AM   #4
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Thanks very much :D
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Old September 27th, 2007, 12:04 PM   #5
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Mike,
Which maintains better resolution to a PiP. Doing it via event Pan and Crop or doing it via track motion?
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Old September 27th, 2007, 12:25 PM   #6
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If you zoom in on something, you want to use Pan/Crop. However, creating a PIP should be the same either way.
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Old September 30th, 2007, 11:36 AM   #7
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Hope this is viewed as a follow on to the originally question.

I have a series of photos that are the focus of a composition. I have used track motion to scale and position the images, and pan/crop to add a tiny bit of zoom and panning movement for interest.

I had wanted to apply the border effect to the images to give a translucent soft edge around them but because the pictures are of differing sizes and orientations and the PiP frame size is constant, the border doesn't work.

I've attached a screenshot to show what I mean and made the border solid to make it easier to see (there's an opacity envelope on the track, hence the slight transparency).

Is there any way to apply the border effect so it matches the size of the images, rather than the frame?

Thanks,

Ian . . .
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Border round a PIP-image1.jpg  
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Old September 30th, 2007, 11:39 AM   #8
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Ah, answered my own question! Yes, there is.

The effect needs to be applied at event level. Presumably applying it at media level has the same result.

Thanks Ian. You're a genius, albeit slow.

Ian . . .
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Old October 1st, 2007, 12:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Stark View Post
The effect needs to be applied at event level. Presumably applying it at media level has the same result.
I don't understand? In this context, what do you mean by "Event" as opposed to "Media" Level? And why the same result?

Grazie
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Old October 1st, 2007, 02:14 AM   #10
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Track FX. Video Event FX. Media FX?? Did you have a heavy night, Grazie?! ;-D

Sorry, waaay too early for sarcasm!

OK, I originally applied the border effect at track level where it operated on the full frame, whose size is fixed (by track motion, for a PiP effect) throughout this composition. With this arrangement, When a picture appears that is smaller than the frame, the border remains the same, thus making the effect look wrong (i.e. like the picture earlier).

By applying the effect at the video event level (on the timeline) or media level (in the project media pool), the effect inherits the properties (i.e. the size) of the media NOT the frame, as shown below (again exaggerated with the border in white).

Cheers!

Ian . . .

p.s. if anyone's vaguely interested, the video is a montage of photos taken by Montessori schools all over the world to celebrate the centenary of the Montessori movement. I was commissioned to turn the snaps into something more attractive and the finished piece (without the border effect, sadly) was shown at their annual conference at Olympia on Saturday. I'm delighted to say that as a result they have ordered 500 copies to be sent to schools all over the world! This is normally the kind of project that I would do exclusively in After Effects as there is a lot going on, compositing-wise (masking, animation, etc) and not much happening in terms of 'traditional' editing of footage. I thought for a change I would rough the project out in Vegas (and then do the REAL work in AE) but as it developed it became clear that Vegas is quite the compositing tool and for this project at least, there was no need to go out to AE. If I'm honest, I will still typically go to AE for this kind of work as it has a significantly greater set of compositing tools that make the creation of these kinds of pieces much easier. However, I was delighted - and a little surprised - with the result that Vegas gave.
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Border round a PIP-image2.jpg  
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Old October 1st, 2007, 06:16 AM   #11
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"Montessori is designed to help all children reach their fullest potential at their own unique pace. A classroom whose children have varying abilities is a community in which everyone learns from one another and everyone contributes."

I asked the question to ensure we were both on the same page. I honestly didn't know why you were suggesting - " Presumably applying it at media level has the same result." . . . it would possibly work or not work with the Project Media objects too?

OK, and from what I understand, you stopped using the CCutter Fx and switched to using the Border Fx? Correct? The PiP Fx DOES have a border element to it, but this IS fixed to the shape and set ratios of the Cutter. In which case the decision to switch from CCutter Fx to Border Fx would/could not have been made based on whether the frame of the properties matched or not. It was based on the feature set of the Cookie Cutter Fx. It does what it says on the can.

Border Fx does Borders. When used on the Track, it does the Border of the Frame not the content. This holds for FXs in general and that IF one applies them to the Track then all the Events on that track get the same Fx - whether wanted or not! It is a One-To-Many relationship

Now, in your reply to me, you explain you then went on and then used the Sony Border Fx ( yes?) but this time applying it TO an Event on the Timeline. You got what you wanted, great! And this is a One-To-One relationship: OneFx+OneEvent relationship.

And yes, applying the SAME Fx to a Media object, in Project Media you get the same result - PLUS you get something extra! Wherever you use THAT Media from the Project Media it will "own" the same Fx - a soft border - whether you want it or not. It too is a One-To-Many relationship. And I have come to understand that is exactly why applying FXs at the Media level is used in this way and for this purpose.

So there IS a difference. FXs applied to media at Media Level will OWN that that Fx when placed on the timeline - no matter how many times it is repeated or copied. Fxs applied to an Event on the timeline are limited to that Event. One way to Copy an Fx is to do the Copy>Paste Event Attributes. But this you can ONLY do if the FX is aplied at Event Level. If I attempt to Copy>Paste Attributes from a previously Media Level applied Fx, which is NOW on the Timeline, it wont take.

So, here again, is a difference of relationship in copy ad pasting the attributes. From an Event Level applied Fx it can be One-To-Many, for Copy>Paste attributes, but you can't do this with an existing timeline Media Level Fx applied Event.

Best regards,

Grazie
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Old October 1st, 2007, 06:35 AM   #12
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Hmmm . . . you're kinda losing me there, sorry! Not sure where the cookie cutter bit crept in, nor the one-to-one, one-to-many relationships stuff. But then again, I certainly DID have a heavy night last night!!

My only issue was getting the border effect to fit to the picture size rather than to the PinP frame size, which is achieved through applying the effect at media or video event level. Job done.

Cheers!

Ian . . .
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Old October 1st, 2007, 08:40 AM   #13
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Ian, you should also investigate the "Pre/Post" toggle switch (it's the triangle to the left of the word "Border" in the effect timeline area). Play with that and you'll see how it works prior to or after zooming
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Old October 1st, 2007, 09:54 AM   #14
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Yes, I spotted that in Mike's post earlier and have just started to experiment. Thanks for that, most interesting.

Again it seems that Vegas throws out multiple ways of achieving something. Wonderful!

Are there any specific situations (above situation excepted) where you would choose pre- rather than post-, and vice versa?

Somewhere I have seen a flowchart that shows the routing of the video signal, i.e. the order of effects and compositing etc. Does that ring any bells with anyone?
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Old October 1st, 2007, 10:19 AM   #15
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Absolutely. When first starting with the scripts, the only way to create a PIP is via Pan/Crop. Track Motion has not been scriptable (some Track Motion scripting has been added in Vegas 8). So to create a PIP I adjusted Pan/Crop making the window very large.

Once you've done that, if you then add a "Border" FX, it puts a border around the entire frame instead of the, now reduced sized, PIP. Changing it from POST to PRE moves the border to be around the PIP instead.
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