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Old February 14th, 2008, 01:44 PM   #1
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HDV 1080 50i project rendered to DVD looks terrible

Hi folks,

having problems outputting a DVD from a HDV project. Everything looks great when I use my HD Samsung LCD as a Windows Secondary Display but when I view the DVD the reds are really hyped and the footage is dark.

Here's my workflow. I'm in the UK so everything's PAL:

Capture m2t files from Sony Z1

Project settings HDV 1080 50i 1440x1080 file edited m2t natively with Vegas 7.0b

Colour grade using a Samsung 42" HD LCD as a Windows Secondary display Monitor using DVI>HDMI. Colour Management is ticked as is Studio RGB and I've used the profile sRGBprofile.icm
I calibrated the LCD using Vegas-generated bars.

Render to MPEG2 using DVD Architect Pal Widescreen settings

Burn DVD using DVDA

When I play it on my DVD player using the same calibration settings as those when I calibrated the LCD as a Windows Secondary Display, everything looks dark and the colours are off (the reds are massively hyped).

I've tried recalibrating the LCD in relation to the DVD player using bars which I burned onto DVD (I specifically used a HDV 1080 50i project and rendered to mpeg2 to match my workflow). I found that the brightness needed to go up compared to the calibration settings for outputting from my graphics card but the colours are still off - reds very hyped. I would have thought that since both the output of the DVD player and the output of the graphics card (using colour management) are outputting StudioRGB, they shouldn't be that far off each other in terms of monitor calibration. This leads me to suspect that I might be doing something wrong in the render to mpeg2 phase.

Just like to thank Douglas Spotted Eagle and Glenn Chann for the excellent Vegas Color Grading DVD which has helped me enormously during the colour grading process - am almost there with this film now and just need help with this issue!

Thanks,

Baldwin
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Old February 14th, 2008, 02:20 PM   #2
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OK, I have no expertise to help you with the colour grading thing but why are you still using Vegas 7b? I'm on 7e so I'm sure you can (and probably should!) update it via Sony website.

Personally, I'll steer clear of paying for Vegas 8 until some of the bugs are worked out.

Also, anything in this thread that might help???

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=114408
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Old February 16th, 2008, 04:21 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldwin Li View Post
Hi folks,

having problems outputting a DVD from a HDV project. Everything looks great when I use my HD Samsung LCD as a Windows Secondary Display but when I view the DVD the reds are really hyped and the footage is dark.

Colour grade using a Samsung 42" HD LCD as a Windows Secondary display Monitor using DVI>HDMI. Colour Management is ticked as is Studio RGB and I've used the profile sRGBprofile.icm

Baldwin
I had a similar problem which I tracked down to the graphics card settings - I'm sorry to say I can't remember the solution. What I recall is that though things looked fine on the screen my graphic card settings for saturation, hue, contrast etc were not right. I updated the card driver though.

I have a Samsung 32" LCD but have found it not accurate enough for colour grading. Hope yours is OK.

Sherif
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Old February 17th, 2008, 07:19 PM   #4
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Thanks for the replies folks, I've had a recheck of my graphics card settings to see if it is outputting incorrect levels. its a gigabyte Geforce 8600 GT so its drivers have colour correction and its set to default, the graph is completely 1:1 i.e. there's no correction on the output.

assuming that i am not doing anything crazy when rendering to mpeg2 then burning to DVD, there can be only two reasons why my footage on DVD doesnt look right: 1) my graphics card doesnt output accurately or 2) my DVD player doesnt output accurately.

ive burnt bars onto a DVD and the colours look slightly off when outputted from my DVD player to the Samsung - but when i play the very same DVD on my PC outputting from my graphics card they look fine.

re the domestic Samsung 42" LCD - i'm not 100% sure about the accuracy of it - what i do have, however, is an SD broadcast monitor which i've lined up from bars outputted from my Sony Z1, so i'm going to hook up a DVD player to that and then i guess will be able to reliably see what's going on. will report back tomorrow with the findings!

cheers,

baldwin
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Old February 18th, 2008, 04:16 PM   #5
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Baldwin

As, in this instance, you're outputting to standard def - is it worth previewing via firewire through your Z1 to see if that gives you something more realistic?

Ian
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Old February 18th, 2008, 05:23 PM   #6
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Stuck on loop....I know

Baldwin

Does the DVD on Colour Correction indicate what equipment was being used by VASST?

(Sigh) Why cant I find a list that just says, purchase this graphics card with this monitor and with a bit of tweaking you'll be editing with Vegas instead of tinkering with the PC all winter. (end sigh)

Glad to hear how you get on.

SHerif
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Old February 18th, 2008, 05:28 PM   #7
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well i connected a DVD to the broadcast monitor and the output actually looks as it should - i wonder if it was the Samsung LCD that was throwing me off - although it did look great (even colour bars looked about right) outputting from DVI to HDMI from my graphics card, maybe it's analogue inputs to the LCD arent particularly accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Briscoe View Post
Baldwin

As, in this instance, you're outputting to standard def - is it worth previewing via firewire through your Z1 to see if that gives you something more realistic?

Ian
yes, good point ian, i should have thought of that!
just one question though: if i change the project properties of my file to PAL DV Widescreen (and thus have a load of HDV m2t files in a DV project) and preview via firewire to my Z1 will it Vegas automatically change the colour space from ITU.R BT.709 to ITU.R BT.601, i.e. will what i be seeing on my broadcast monitor be accurate?

ive just been to the cinema today where we're holding our premiere in march (see www.25gsmovie.com) and they recommended digibeta for playback so now i have a few options of how to do the transfer:

1) render to PAL DV then print to tape then do the transfer from a DV machine to the Digi deck (which is connected via SDI where i'm going to do the transfer).

2) render to HDV and print to tape then output SD downconverted from the component output of the Z1.

3) render to avi SD uncompressed and use the component output from my graphics card (nvidia geforce 8600GT) connected to the Digibeta deck to record the master.

Either way its a great deal better than playing a DVD on a 65ft screen!

Any thoughts most welcome.

Best,

Baldwin
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Old February 18th, 2008, 05:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherif Choudhry View Post
Baldwin

Does the DVD on Colour Correction indicate what equipment was being used by VASST?

(Sigh) Why cant I find a list that just says, purchase this graphics card with this monitor and with a bit of tweaking you'll be editing with Vegas instead of tinkering with the PC all winter. (end sigh)

Glad to hear how you get on.

SHerif
unless ive missed it somewhere i dont think the VASST DVD goes through their specific hardware setup though i'm sure Glenn & Spot would be happy to provide details. however they do go through some hardware recommendations which i'm sure is all good stuff.

i think the thing is this: most of us are monetarily challenged and we try and make do with domestic TVs and graphics cards designed for video gamers and such like - i'm sure there are good cheap solutions out there but they seem to require a good deal of tinkering. if i had the cash a Blackmagic with SD HDI and a CRT HD monitor would do the job but alas i'll have to make do!

once i've been through this process once and seen it on the big screen (thankfully i get a chance for a screen test before the premiere) i'll be more confident on what i can or can't trust with my setup.

happy tinkering, sherif!

best,

baldwin
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Old March 10th, 2008, 02:17 AM   #9
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Hi Baldwin,
How did you go with everything?
I was also wondering what or how you transferd the footage

I have found color correcting to your Samsung is not a true indication of colors. The best soultion for me to color correct is fire wire out to a camera, camera out to CRT normal glass TV. I find this gets me close allmost all the time and these small TV's are cheap to buy.

Cheers
Simon
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