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Old March 10th, 2008, 11:09 AM   #1
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Vegas/monitor for color correcting?

I have read through all previous post and I am still a little confused. I currently run a dual monitor set up with Vegas 8 (second monitor for my preview window). I used to run a tube tv through a camera via firewire to color correct which worked out ok but a bit of a PITA to connect the camera every time. Now that there seems to be drivers for vegas for the black magic card, is there a better way via hdmi? Are there reasonably priced monitors with HDMI in's? Should I pick up a small HDTV to monitor via HDMI?

I am setting up for HDV this year and trying to figure out the best method. Thanks.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 11:39 PM   #2
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HDV colour space is diff from DV. Using an external monitor via Firewire will cuz some problems. Glenn is the best person to explain the details. All I know is using a secondary calibrated monitor is the most cost effective solution now. Black magic intensity sounds good too but I'm not sure of the colour accuracy. Support of Vegas is really limited.. AJA does have something to go with Vegas.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 11:47 PM   #3
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For some users, you'd want to get a proper HD broadcast monitor. If it's an LCD, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 1920x1080 resolution (unless it's a field monitor). HD broadcast monitors range from ~$4k to $30k+.

Presumably that sort of solution won't make sense for you due to budget + needs.

I'd just get a 1920x1200 computer LCD and use it as the preview device. Computer monitors have some problems compared to a proper broadcast monitor (e.g. won't do interlacing right, colors are likely off, etc.)... but it's your best bet right now.

2- If you are delivering SD, then your best bet is a CRT broadcast monitor. They are around $600+.

They will be more helpful than any computer monitor. They'll show interlacing correctly (important in SD), the colors will be reasonably good, etc. Computer monitors don't do either.

3- For any monitoring in Vegas, you should pay attention to the color space conversions going on.
Sometimes what you see is not what you will get (more so in 32-bit).
http://glennchan.info/articles/vegas...lorspaces.html
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Old March 11th, 2008, 01:34 AM   #4
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At work (disclaimer: I work for Sharp Labs of America), I use a 37-inch Sharp GP1. Frankly the 32-inch model would have been better on a desktop, but I grabbed what we had available. We also recently released the GP3 series, which is available in a variety of colors. For color correction, get the black one.

These are consumer TVs/gaming TVs, so they aren't perfectly calibrated, but they are representative of what people watch these days. And they're 1080p in a small package. The GP-1 has good blacks (I can't stand elevated blacks in LCD TVs.). They're quite dark, if slightly purple at the limit.

http://www.sharpusa.com/products/Mod...8,1834,00.html
http://www.sharpusa.com/products/Mod...8,1964,00.html

So, yeah, I work for Sharp, but I'm honestly happy editing on the GP1.
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Old March 11th, 2008, 04:31 AM   #5
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I suppose, like Glen says, you need to use a monitor that matches your output. If you deliver on SD then a good CRT is what you need and it's cost effective. No point splashing out on fancy HD monitors if you only deliver in SD.

However, I was wondering how that fairs when you record and edit in HD but deliver in SD? What's the best option here? and can you get away with monitoring a SD output? What should I be monitoring? the HD I've shot and am editing, or a SD output as that's what it'll end up being?

In the mean time, I did find a cost effective HD monitor from JVC. You need to buy the optional HD input module, so that makes this a good flexible monitor for those not ready for HD, but requiring good CRT monitoring. I am days away from purchasing a new monitor and this one looks pretty good. It will offer me the option of monitoring both!

http://www.jvcpro.co.uk/item/index_html?item=DT-V100CG
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Old March 11th, 2008, 01:10 PM   #6
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I recently had to do a lot of color correction and ended up taking a small Sharp LCD TV and pluging it into my video card via composite out. My final product was a SD DVD. No mater what I did to calibrate my computer monitor it just looked really different than the final DVD on a regular TV (LCD or tube). The LCD TV out via composite actually pretty closely matched what the final looked like on my TV. I did have to tweek some of the settings but it did a much better job than the computer monitor.

Does this make sense for an inexpensive solution?
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Old March 11th, 2008, 01:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Campbell View Post
In the mean time, I did find a cost effective HD monitor from JVC.
Stuart, have you priced out the optional SDI card?
The monitor (DT-V100CGU) is only $689.95 at B&H.
However, the SDI card (special order only) is a mere $1,699.95 !!!
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Old March 11th, 2008, 01:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Chan View Post
For some users, you'd want to get a proper HD broadcast monitor. If it's an LCD, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 1920x1080 resolution (unless it's a field monitor). HD broadcast monitors range from ~$4k to $30k+.

Presumably that sort of solution won't make sense for you due to budget + needs.

I'd just get a 1920x1200 computer LCD and use it as the preview device. Computer monitors have some problems compared to a proper broadcast monitor (e.g. won't do interlacing right, colors are likely off, etc.)... but it's your best bet right now.

2- If you are delivering SD, then your best bet is a CRT broadcast monitor. They are around $600+.

They will be more helpful than any computer monitor. They'll show interlacing correctly (important in SD), the colors will be reasonably good, etc. Computer monitors don't do either.

3- For any monitoring in Vegas, you should pay attention to the color space conversions going on.
Sometimes what you see is not what you will get (more so in 32-bit).
http://glennchan.info/articles/vegas...lorspaces.html

Hey Glenn, on that note, I was doing some screen grabbing the other day. Since the grab looks better on my JVC monitor, is it reasonable to expect that a printout of the same grab will look more like my monitor's representation as opposed to my computer monitor? All things being equal, such as high quality print etc.
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Old March 11th, 2008, 01:55 PM   #9
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Here's a link for a good broadcast JVC monitor at B&H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ti_Format.html
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Old March 11th, 2008, 04:39 PM   #10
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Thanks glen and all who replied. I would love to use my 22" dell lcd for hdv color correction until there is a better alternative. I tried to calibrate last night and the contrast settings are there but unavailable. Is this because I am connected using DVI? I believe it has a component connection also. Should I try this?
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Old March 11th, 2008, 04:52 PM   #11
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I am about to buy a Full HDTV to be (also, as it will have other uses in my office, as well) used as a full display, secondary monitor with Vegas. Have just tried using the secondary DVI output of my ATI X1600XT graphics card - and was disappointed to see that the frame rate of 25fps (8bit 25p HDV project, no FX) goes down considerably when feeding the secondary display! Why is that, and which is a tested solution for obtaining full plaback speed (well, at least the same as Vegas is capable of with just the preview window). Glenn has advised using i.link to analog conversion, but I don't want to use my camera for that. What gives?

Will a newer/faster graphics card help (I doubt it, as Vegas is obviosuly not using GPU hardware acceleration). Any specialized solution that is known to work with Vegas? But please - not anything as expensive as AJA (I'm not capturing anyway)...
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Old March 11th, 2008, 05:22 PM   #12
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That's why I figured the Black Magic card would be able to feed a HDV lcd tv. I also have a 40" Sharp Aquos nearby that I could feed. I know people who in FCP feed HDVtv through the Black Magic card with good results.
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Old March 11th, 2008, 05:46 PM   #13
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But isn't the Intensity's 1080 output interlaced only?
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Old March 11th, 2008, 07:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
I am about to buy a Full HDTV to be (also, as it will have other uses in my office, as well) used as a full display, secondary monitor with Vegas. Have just tried using the secondary DVI output of my ATI X1600XT graphics card - and was disappointed to see that the frame rate of 25fps (8bit 25p HDV project, no FX) goes down considerably when feeding the secondary display! Why is that?...
It could be that you're running the preview at a higher resolution and/or quality than you were in the preview window. You might also be disk limited, if you are running at a low compression rate.

I've been running mostly uncompressed with a 4-drive RAID-0. It works great for 720p or 1080i, but I would need 8-drives for 1080p in real time. The CPU is almost idle when playing back at full speed.

If you are using compressed signals, the CPU is probably choking. Hi Ctrl-Del and open the Task Manager. You can check your CPU performance there.
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Old March 12th, 2008, 01:03 AM   #15
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Wow Jon, I wasnt aware that there are alr 32" 1080P capable LCD TVs out there! At least we do not have it in Asia yet. Would be nice to check out one of those!
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