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Old April 26th, 2008, 08:18 AM   #16
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unfortunatly this was not my cam, and isnt here yet.
i dont remember the model number, just it was from a hungarian shop.
but why is this important? it write simple mpeg2 SD PAL files as the other.
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Old April 26th, 2008, 08:26 AM   #17
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Just wanting to make sure of the video format.

MPEG is more difficult to edit than DV. They are totally different methods of compression.

It does seem odd that you are having trouble with the SD video though. As a comparison would it be possible to take a short bit of video from a DVD and see if it has the same effect to your memory usage?

Also, more information about your computer would be helpful.

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Old April 26th, 2008, 08:33 AM   #18
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I know its harder to work with mpg files, but i dont think 2gb ram isnt enough for a 1,5 hour long project!...

ok, i will try it with other mpg files.
my config is:
Asrock Conroe 865PE, E2160, 2x1GB Dual DDR400, Gigabyte 7600GS AGP, Audigy card, 250GB Sata Samsung and 160GB Pata Maxtor hdd.
XP SP2 hungarian, dx9.
have i forgotten something?
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Old April 26th, 2008, 11:27 AM   #19
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There are several things that can cause per-clip memory use, and that can result it big failures in 32-bit applications.

Let's say that each clip has to use the Mainconcept MPEG-2 decoder (you can look at the media properties to see what plug-in Vegas is using), and that, ballpark, each clip takes 10MB to be ready to play back. Unfortunately, with 100 clips, you're pushing it (1GB). With 150 clips, you're toast.

Now you may have noticed that I said "what plug-in Vegas is using." To answer the earlier question, Vegas handles files via dll's that internally are called "plug-ins." These can, in turn, make use of existing file services (DirectShow, Quicktime, Real, etc.), but the application does not use those services directly. From the application's perspective, it's just talking to some thing that knows how to handle a file for it.
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Old April 26th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #20
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Matthew, thanks for information!

Yes, clip properties says: this is a mainconcept mpeg2 file.
And every file need 10MB for importing.
What can i do? What other codec should i install, and where can i inform vegas, to use another codec?

really thanks!
Marton
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Old April 26th, 2008, 10:58 PM   #21
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Unfortunately, if Vegas has decided to use a specific component, it's because of some characteristic of the file.

You could convert the files to another format (like DV or MXF) that doesn't suffer from these issues. This was a common practice with Vegas and HDV before work was done to make HDV memory-efficient when natively used in Vegas.

-Matt
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Old April 26th, 2008, 11:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prech Marton View Post
solution was: place only 20 clips on the timeline, rendering to dv avi, then the next 20... etc. editing the dv avi, and rendering this to final single file. this works, but i know, quality degrades :(
I recently put together an hour long video of regatta footage shot from a consumer HDD camera. The files it stored were muxed MPEG2 and there were over 100 clips total. I found that I was running into the same problem as you (I too only have 2 GB of RAM) and that transcoding from MPEG2 to DV AVI was the easier solution for editing when compared to trying to edit the MPEG2 files.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 01:21 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John C. Plunkett View Post
I found that I was running into the same problem as you (I too only have 2 GB of RAM) and that transcoding from MPEG2 to DV AVI was the easier solution for editing
So, then nothing is wrong with my system?? argghh.
The bad thing that i see the quality loss, because of mpg->dv->mpeg compression :(

Matthew:
Can i not uninstall the mainconcept codec? I rarely render from the timeline with this codec, instead use frameserver and render with procoder. It produce better video at lower bitrate. And maybe vegas use another (memory friendly) codec to importing mpg files..

BUT why Paul doesn't have this issue??
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Old April 27th, 2008, 07:01 AM   #24
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Ok Prech.
I just pulled some MPEG2 footage from my HDD cam,about 20 clips,around 5 mins in total.
Footage was 720x576,upper field first. Cam was Sony DCR-SR90.
I first imported the footage from the cam to my external hard-drive,then from the external drive into vegas.
It was the first time that these clips where put on the vegas timeline so the mxf files were built for the audio peaks,total import time was around 20 secs while i waited for audio peaks to build,obviously next time will be near instant when i drag the clips to the timeline.

During import/building peaks i looked at the task manager,
1.9gb being used at the highest and 58% of ram,at the highest,but around 40% average.

This is on a Vista pc,quad core q6600,4gb ram.

Hope this helps.

Paul.
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Last edited by Paul Kellett; April 27th, 2008 at 07:03 AM. Reason: more info.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 11:39 AM   #25
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Thanks, this helps.
Do you think it is normal? 1,5 hour long SD project requires 2GB of ram.
I was learned programming at university, and i think it is a BIG programming failure, or bug, or laziness, whatever you call.
i dont want to buy 4gb of ram just for this.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 11:57 AM   #26
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I personally would try to always have at least 3, better 4 Gbs RAM. I used 2Gbs of RAM years ago, and have been using 4Gb. While it might be frustrating, we must remember we are editing video, which is resource hungry. Good luck!
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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:02 PM   #27
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Prech, you're going to have a per-clip memory cost for any format, period. Unfortunately, for some formats/readers, that per-clip cost ends up being too high with certain use-cases. This has been targeted for many formats with development efforts in the past, but I can assure you that there's no laziness involved.

Many-an-engineer have braved grey hairs, cases of Red Bull, and strained home-lives for Vegas, but, in the end, you have to decide where to focus efforts. It can't all be done in one revision.

Additionally, don't bother getting 4GB of RAM. The issue is one of virtual address space, not of physical memory. Having 4GB of RAM in your system might allow it to fail sooner (less disk thrashing), but it won't keep it from failing.

That said, running Vista, I much prefer a system with 4GB (or 8GB) of RAM over 2GB. It greatly reduces thrashing.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:17 PM   #28
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I dont agree. 2gb is enough for every other program that i use.

"we must remember we are editing video, which is resource hungry."

I edit DV video since when i have only Celeron 300 processor and 256MB ram. It worked very well, even with 2 hour project with effect!
So, today i have to add 4GB of ram ONLY because the files is now mpg2 instead of dv avi? This is insane. I know the editing apps are smarter, and faster, but this should not be increase the memory requirement so high, IMHO.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 03:30 PM   #29
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Prech, MPEG-2 was never meant to be an editing format, only a delivery format.
It's several times more CPU intensive than DV-AVI ever will be.
If all you want to do is trim a few clips and save the final project, take a look at the products form Womble and VideoReDo as they're designed to work with MPEG-2 material.
Vegas wasn't.
Unfortunately, camcorder manufacturers keep making "new and improved" models without bothering to figure out how the poor consumer is going to edit this footage :-(
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Old April 27th, 2008, 05:01 PM   #30
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My suggestion to add RAM was misguided. I've taken MPEG 2 from a DVD before and it is just unbelievably unwieldly. They are right Prech, Mpeg 2 just doesn't handle well on the Vegas timeline and isn't meant to.
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