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Old October 6th, 2008, 02:11 AM   #1
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Anyone using Vaast gearshift?

I'm making a documentary on HDV, and now that I've got 10 or so hours on the timeline
and am starting to cut my rushes I'm starting to find it painfully slow. It's a massive project so I'll probably have over 100 hours by the time I've finished filming. Enter Vaast gearshift. I downloaded a trial and have played around with it, but I have a few questions for those of you who use it.

1) when I shift gears a HD intermediate file is created. Do I need to create one of these or can I just swap between my PAL DV widescreen proxy and my orginal m2t file. The reason I ask is because the cineform codec is HUGE and even though I have 1.7TB of storage, it won't take long before that is taken up.

2) SHould I shift gear back to HD when I capture more HDV footage and then shift back. If so, when I shift gears back to my proxy media will gearshift only render the newly added footage?

3) If I have to use a HD proxy, should I go for the 1080i intermediate or the HD 1080-50i YUV codec?


Glen

My project properties are 1080i
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Old October 6th, 2008, 10:07 AM   #2
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Iím in the same boat as you. Lots of footage - how can I manage the workflow? I wanted so badly to use Cineform and be able to have real time output to a display but finally the cost, storage space and hardware compatibility MADE ME find a product like gearshift. Although I donít own it yet, I did download the trial and play around with it.

1) You can create DV proxies only. You donít have to create the Cineform or Sony YUV files but you can choose to create them and be done with your m2t files.

2) No you donít have to shift gears back to HDV when you capture more HDV footage. I captured my HDV footage with Vegas to a location on my hard drive and created the proxies right from there. When i swapped, gearshift knew where to find the HDV originals (donít move them, it doesnít like that)

3) The SONY HD 1080-50i YUV codec is huge! Unless you have a Raid array that can support it you wonít be able to use it effectively. The 1080i Intermediate are Cineform files which have very manageable file sizes and great quality. If I had to use an HD format Iíd go for the 1080i intermediate (Cineform).


Ok after my trial finished there were a few things a needed to know, so I asked the Vasst guys (in some other forum)

HD and SD use different colour spaces, and I wanted to know "when I colour correct the proxy, will it translate to the HD colour space?" It will!! This is huge for me. I can firewire out to my Sony Pro Monitor and colour correct. Try using firewire with HDV, YUV, or Cineform Ė you canít!! When I finally swap for my render I am sure my colour will translate perfectly.

The next question was ďwill my lower thirds and graphics translate back to HDVĒ? Simply, NO! If I remember correctly, they will be fine horizontally but vertically they will off by a few pixels. It could be problem for you if you are doing a lot of different graphics, etc. Iím using the same lower third (with different text), the same episode intro graphics and the same end credits over again and over again so not Iím not worried, but the beautiful thing is I can swap back at any time and check my progress.

Finally, some people might dismiss working with proxies as outdated, but if you were working with an AVID ten years ago and cutting a motion picture film then you used proxies! No big deal! You get the benefit of real time firewire out - something we've missed since the DV days, and you get full frame rate and full (DV) quality playback.

Gearshift is great product! And in reality its quite inexpensive and if it doesn't work right for you its not a big loss!

mike
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Old October 6th, 2008, 03:56 PM   #3
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"I wanted so badly to use Cineform and be able to have real time output to a display"

Something I've always wondered is why someone would use a Cineform file rather than the m2t file if they had enough processing power. I've found the Cineform files much harder to edit than the m2t files. I'm running XP with a duo core 2.66 processor and 4GB of Ram, which I used to think was relatively powerful!

"you can choose to create them and be done with your m2t files"

Again, why would someone want to get rid of their m2t files?
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Old October 6th, 2008, 06:47 PM   #4
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I'll probably be purchasing GearShift pretty soon, but what I remember from my initial research was that the Cineform files hold up much much better under color correction than the native m2t files. If you're using 24f from an XHA1/XLH1/HV30 like myself in Vegas, then using the native m2t files either directly or in a swapping fashion crashes Vegas for me and from what I hear many others as well (unless an update has fixed this problem). Other than this, Vegas is rock solid for me.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 02:11 PM   #5
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I think I will purchase it, but I can't seem to make DV proxies without making HD intermediate files.

When I chose 'none' in the HD box under the DV box on the main interface, it says I can't choose none.

Last edited by Glen Maw; October 7th, 2008 at 02:12 PM. Reason: finishing post
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Old October 9th, 2008, 11:05 PM   #6
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Sorry for the late reply Glen,

You don't have to make any HD files (YUV or Cineform's DI). The "HD Media" drop down menu should be left as "none".



Dear Chris Hurd,
i'll respect the rules here in Dvinfonet, but can i link to the "Sony Vegas Scripting" Support page, which is hosted on another forum? The post's on Sony Vegas Scripting Support page directly to Vasst's email and Glen might find the answers from the program developers more useful than mine.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 07:15 AM   #7
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Mike, the developers at VASST do look here. Spot and John both read and post here.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 06:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Troxel View Post
Mike, the developers at VASST do look here. Spot and John both read and post here.
Yup we do. ;-)

Glen contacted us off-line and the problem was that he was using the Timeline option which only makes proxies from the rough-cut on the timeline but it forces you to also make Cineform files because once you start trimming media on the timeline, the M2T and DV proxies will not match 1-for-1 so HDV intermediaries are needed. The options to convert HDV from the Filesystem or Media Bisn does not have this limitation and so Cineform HDV files are not needed and can be turned off.

I just wanted to state the solution here for others reading this thread.

~jr
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Old October 15th, 2008, 12:38 AM   #9
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Thanks very much, John. For others, Gearshift is a great product and well worth it.

Glen
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Old October 15th, 2008, 04:20 AM   #10
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Glen, am I right in thinking that you've dropped ALL 10 hours of rushes onto the timeline and are cutting from there?
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Old October 16th, 2008, 09:48 PM   #11
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Yes. Do you think that is the wrong way to go about it?

Glen
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Old October 17th, 2008, 01:59 AM   #12
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Hi Glen,

I'd guess that having that much HD footage on your timeline is almost certainly causing your machine to slow down. I'm speaking from practical experience and not from a technical background so some people may disagree! I have very little knowledge of how the PC works etc!

This is purely a matter of preference for some people but I prefer (and find it easier on the machine) to open clips from the Project Media tab straight into the Trimmer. I find my Ins and Outs there and only drop what I want onto the timeline. This keeps your timeline full of only the things you want and makes it easier to work to a structure and see where you are.

You can also organise all of your clips into Bins so you can find them quickly and effectively.

It enables me to work much more effectively and keeps the edit machine operating nicely enabling hd playback without the gitters from the timeline and trimmer window.

Again, some people do this differently but that's what I'd advise!

Maybe give it a try and see how it goes. Open a new project with the same rushes and try editing from the Trimmer.

I also use Cineform Neo which gives me an intermediate AVI to edit with. It's very good.

Hope that helps.
Stuart
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Old October 17th, 2008, 09:23 PM   #13
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Thanks Stuart, I'll give it a go.

Glen
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