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Old December 16th, 2008, 09:33 AM   #1
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Pro 8.1 64bit way slower than MS Plat 9.0b in Vista 64

Hello all,

I bought Vegas Movie Studio 9.0b Platinum Pro Pack and since I am running Vista 64bit I thought upgrading to Vegas Pro 8.1 64bit would help me edit my Canon 5D Mark II 1080P video a little better. I was getting about 5-8 FPS previews and worse when I add effects etc... So I begged the wife and broke out the credit card and bought the upgrade last week.

However (Vegas Pro 8.1 64bit) is running far worse than (Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum Pro Pack) on the same system. When previewing, rendering movies moving the sliders etc... I tested using a blank project with the same source video file with the same rendering output settings. All performance is worse. Argh...

System Specs:
Vista 64 Completely updated drivers ~ Core2 Quad Q9450 ~ 4GB DDR2 ~ 300GB 10KRPM WD VelociRaptor & 2 each 750GB WD 7200RPM in RAID 1 ~ GTX280 1GB PCIE video card ~ 37" 1920x1080 LCD DVI TV/Monitor

I am a little upset at spending the money for the upgrade. But all would okay if I can get it to at least perform the same since it has added functionality.

Also a little side question: Is there anyway to have all the extra Pro Pack transitions and other tools added to my Vegas Pro Install?

Thank you for any help.
Sincerely
Don
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Old December 16th, 2008, 11:35 AM   #2
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I have no clue what your problem is regarding rendering etc... but I do know that goofing around with the available setting for RAM does make a difference.

Hopefully, someone will chime in with some more specific help for you, good luck!!
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Old December 16th, 2008, 12:43 PM   #3
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Are you refering to Dynamic ram preview setting?

If you are referring to the setting in preferences-video-Dynamic RAM preview max MB,
then I have tried adjusting that without any difference.
But wouldn't that be just for when I'm using the "Build Dynamic RAM preview" feature?

Is there another setting for RAM usage in general within Vegas?

I'm simply comparing the preview framerate, rendering time and general responsiveness of the application. Using a bare project of equal settings using the same exact source video clip. Vegas Pro 64bit performs at about 1/3 the speed of Vegas Movie Studio platinum 9.0b.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 04:22 PM   #4
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Just a small question but sometimes it's overseen: What are your project properties?
Is it the same as your footage? It sounds extremely unlikely that the material is only played back at 5 to 8 fps or is it heavy H.264 coded? Even 10 to 15 fps would kill my interest in the system. If your properties are different to the material you are running adjust them to the same as the footage or convert the footage to your output material. This will speed things up.
Otherwise Vegas has to convert it currently during playback.

Regards

Axel
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Old December 16th, 2008, 04:31 PM   #5
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I have the same problem with footage I have downloaded from the camera. I have a 32 bit set up, quad coree, and I have concluded Mpeg4 will not preview well except if you have fastest processor. "Best, Full" preview has always been a problem with Vegas, and as I understand it, preview is driven by processor capabilities. Getting into mpeg 4 only adds to the problem, and I'm guessing Vegas does not utilize all processor capabilities in the preview. I got a little better speed going to the quad, from an AMD dual, but really not that much of an improvement.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 04:33 PM   #6
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As Axel said, make sure your project properties match your source footage properties.
I just loaded in some AVCHD footage I grabbed off the net and was only getting 8-10 fps with project properties set to NTSC DV (720x480, 29.970 fps).
When I matched the project settings of HDV 1080-60i (1440x1080, 29.970 fps), the Preview Window immediately jumped to 29.97 - at Best/Full.
BTW, don't forget about the audio settings.

As far as your extra Pro Pack transitions and other tools, I think you're out of luck there as these are only for Movie Studio and not Vegas Pro.
Sorry :-(
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Old December 16th, 2008, 04:49 PM   #7
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I'll give it a try

Thanks for the suggestion,
I will give it a try when I get home from work.
It will probably help.

My main point though, is that using the "Exact" same project settings and source video, I get much slower performance application wide in Vegas Pro 64bit on my Vista-64 box than Vegas Movie Studio 32bit version.

I really appreciate the suggestions for optimizing project settings though, It will come in useful when I finally decide whether or not to stick with Pro or go back to Movie Studio. As of right now - Pro isn't giving me much of a reason to stick with it, unless it's a heavy duty project that I need more layers for. Especially since there are so many useful extras with the Movie Studio Pro Pack I got.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 05:01 PM   #8
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"As Axel said, make sure your project properties match your source footage properties.
I just loaded in some AVCHD footage I grabbed off the net and was only getting 8-10 fps with project properties set to NTSC DV (720x480, 29.970 fps).
When I matched the project settings of HDV 1080-60i (1440x1080, 29.970 fps), the Preview Window immediately jumped to 29.97 - at Best/Full.
BTW, don't forget about the audio settings."

What are your system specs. Is there any specific additional settings in Vegas to get that kind of result ?
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Old December 16th, 2008, 05:30 PM   #9
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Chris, I've got a QX6700 quad core, running XP Pro SP2 with 3 SATA drives.
To clarify, I'm not feeding this to an external monitor.
This playback rate is what I saw on the Vegas Preview Monitor with the screen size set to 573 x 322.
If I maximize it to my desktop (1900 x 1080), it fluctuates between 25 - 29.97 fps.
BTW, enabling the Safe Area markers drops it to 6 fps :-(
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Old December 16th, 2008, 09:20 PM   #10
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OK - Lotsa testing.....

Okay all, sorry for the long post/(story?)....but for those interested:

I used the "Match Media" option when creating the project and I verified every setting matched as closely as possible that I could find on each version.
However, simply previewing the video is still different:
My (average guestimate) preview speeds of direct 5D Mark II 1080P source video:
Vegas Movie Studio Plat 9.0b 32bit...... 6.3fps sec
Vegas Pro 8.1 64bit..................... 1.9fps sec

So.. I opened a ticket with Sony and they are looking at it from 2 angles, here is their responses:

1) ----------------------
It is possible that the files are encoded and utilizing codecs not native to Vegas Pro and the codecs being used are possibly not designed to take advantage of x64 hardware or OS environment.

Perhaps you could upload a sample file to our FTP server so that we could try testing with that here.
-------------------------

I uploaded a short 1080P@30fps source video directly from my 5D Mark II.
We'll see what they say.....


2) -----------------------
You can also try benchmarking both applications by downloading and test rendering the sample attached file.

It is a modified file that was setup to test rendering in Vegas Pro 8 by one of our users. I changed a few things so that it would open in Vegas Movie Studio Platinum also.

To test, download the attached file. First open in Vegas Movie Studio Platinum and use Project / Render As... Use MainConcept MPEG-2, and Blu-Ray 1920x1080-60i 25 mbps video stream.

Vegas will provide an elapsed time as it renders. Make a note of that time.

Next, repeat the exact same steps, but open the file in Vegas Pro 8.1 (Open Vegas Pro, use File / Open... then File / Render As when you are ready to render)

Do you see any differences between the two versions?
--------------------------


I ran the tests - and viola... Pro rendered faster...
Here are my results:
Vegas Movie Studio Plat 9.0b 32bit...... 1min & 10sec
Vegas Pro 8.1 64bit..................... 50 sec

So wanting to test the codec theory above, I threw the same exact sample file that I uploaded to Sony onto the end each of the separate 4 tracks (ensuring only one copy of the audio, from one of the tracks) Into the same exact project they provided. I then rendered using the same exact same settings as before.
Vegas Movie Studio Plat 9.0b 32bit...... 6min & 55sec
Vegas Pro 8.1 64bit..................... 48min & 24sec
(I was SHOCKED at this difference)

Next I performed the same test with a different 'non-5D' video file with a different codec:
Vegas Movie Studio Plat 9.0b 32bit...... 6min & 27sec
Vegas Pro 8.1 64bit..................... 6min & 33sec

This is pure conjecture:
Based on these results my belief is that Sony Vegas Pro 8.1 64bit is decoding the 5D Mark II files using the 32bit codec then upconverting it to 64bit for internal use and this process is slower than Vegas Movie Studio because it adds another extra conversion where the 32bit Vegas Movie Studio running on the 64bit OS doesn't need this step.

Until Vegas Pro 64bit develops support into their software for the codec used by the Canon 5D MarkII, I was considering resigning myself to using proxy files. This wouldn't be a terrible option, but.. It takes will take SO MUCH longer to render the final output.... aurghh...I can see this being a problem when I have to get a project done.


PS: If anyone knows someplace where I could upload these files to host, I could provide them for anyone who wants to do their own testing.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 11:40 PM   #11
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Hi Don,

would be great to get some footage for test purpose. Unfortunately I have no clue where to host it. Hope someone else can give some tips for that.
Another question is as what the files are coded? Is Canon using an AVCHD codec or what is that material?

Axel
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