How do I render widescreen without the black bars on top/bottom but still wide? at DVinfo.net

David Delaney · January 1st, 2009, 12:22 AM

I am trying to render out a file in wide without the black bar on the top and bottom. Each time I do try to do this, the file is squashed instead of stretched out in DVD arch. I am trying to copy a style I saw in Encore, but I am at a loss how to get it. I have tried going into the prjt properties and change is to widescreen, 16:9, but I still get the same issue when I render as a mpeg2 widescreen format. Any help?

Bill Ravens · January 1st, 2009, 12:39 AM

DVDA will produce Bluray or DVD. You can get 16:9 widescreen, full frame with Bluray. However, if you're producing a DVD, by definition and standard, DVD is exclusively 4:3 format. In order to display a widescreen(16:9) video on DVD, one MUST letterbox the frame. The only way you can get full 4:3 in a SD DVD is to zoom into the image (usually before you render out) to fill the 4:3 frame and clip the sides of the widescreen image.

Richard Hunter · January 1st, 2009, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

However, if you're producing a DVD, by definition and standard, DVD is exclusively 4:3 format. In order to display a widescreen(16:9) video on DVD, one MUST letterbox the frame.

Hi Bill. This is just not the case. The DVD standard supports both 4:3 and 16:9 video. the resolution is the same (720x480 for NTSC, 720x576 for PAL) whether it is 4:3 or 16:9, but there is a flag that reports the aspect ratio to the monitor. So if everything is set correctly, a 4:3 monitor will display 4:3 video as full frame, and 16:9 video as letterboxed. However if you send the same 16:9 to a 16:9 monitor, it will show as full frame.

Richard

David Delaney · January 1st, 2009, 10:02 AM

So how do I get the full widescreen without the black bars on top and bottom? I have seen it in an encore presentation that my friend has, but he natively did it in Premiere - how do I do it in Vegas?
This is what is happening :

I am putting the mpeg files in a DVD arch presentation - all of them are in a form of NO BLACK BARS at the top. I have to fix one of the files (originally from premiere) and render it (and I only want to re-render one of them) because when I render it, it looks completely different with the black bars at the top from the rest of the project in ARCH.

Bill Ravens · January 1st, 2009, 10:25 AM

Richard...

I think you misunderstood me. You've said the same thing as I with the difference that I did not speak to display on a widescreen. Indeed, DVD will appear on a widescreen without letterboxing, but, if you display on a 4:3 set, you will get letterbox, no way around it without zooming and panning.

David Delaney · January 1st, 2009, 10:40 AM

I wonder how it is done in Premiere then? When I bring the files FROM premiere (the ones that need to be fixed) into Vegas (on the computer) - it shows widescreen without black bars in the preview window and in the media files bin on vegas. BUT when I render something out with Vegas, and bring the file BACK into Vegas, it has the black bars and looks different then the file from Premiere. Do you know what I mean?

Bill Ravens · January 1st, 2009, 10:46 AM

David...
Vegas has many ways to preview footage that does not represent what you get out. What are your project properties, 4:3 or 16:9? What is your preview window set to? Simulate aspect ratio? stretch image to match window size? lots of things going on here. Bottom line....how can one fit a 16:9 image in a 4:3 square? only three ways to do this 1-letterbox 2-zoom and cut sides 3-distort the image

David Delaney · January 1st, 2009, 10:54 AM

Bill,
I do understand what you are saying. I have set the project properties to many things trying to resolve what I believe is an issue.
I see that you are saying it doesn't matter what it looks like in Vegas because it will come out fine on a DVD, but I am still trying to understand why the two files look different in Vegas if they are both widescreen.

Bill Ravens · January 1st, 2009, 11:05 AM

FWIW...

Vegas is unlike any other NLE I use. It does very weird things to images in the preview window. What you see is not what you get with vegas unless configuration settings are right.Sorry I can't be more help.

Richard Hunter · January 1st, 2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

Richard...

I think you misunderstood me. You've said the same thing as I with the difference that I did not speak to display on a widescreen. Indeed, DVD will appear on a widescreen without letterboxing, but, if you display on a 4:3 set, you will get letterbox, no way around it without zooming and panning.

OK, sorry if I misunderstood Bill. But in that case, how does Blu Ray do it differently? You said it can show 16:9 full frame but that DVD has to have letterbox bars. I thought both behave the same.

Richard

Adam Letch · January 1st, 2009, 06:50 PM

pixel ratios that made the 16:9 fill a 4:3 screen, because otherwise it's impossible. Square vs whatever other option, it'd fit but the image would be compressed and out of proportion. It also depends on the TV if it can underscan etc.

Just my uneducated stab here ..

Richard Hunter · January 1st, 2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Delaney

Bill,
I do understand what you are saying. I have set the project properties to many things trying to resolve what I believe is an issue.
I see that you are saying it doesn't matter what it looks like in Vegas because it will come out fine on a DVD, but I am still trying to understand why the two files look different in Vegas if they are both widescreen.

Hi David. Should be possible to solve this.

First, if the clips are widescreen, set your project as widescreen too. Next, check that Vegas is interpreting the aspect ratio of the clips properly. i.e. right-click on the clip and select Properties/Media and check that the pixel aspect ratio is correct. Should be 1.2121 for NTSC widescreen.

Right-click on the preview window and make sure "Simulate Device Aspect Ratio" is checked. This will make the preview window widescreen (16:9) for a widescreen project.

If the aspect ratios of the project and clips match, there should not be any letterboxing on the preview window.

If you go through these steps and still have a problem, please report more details of the settings you are using, and what is the aspect ratio of the clips.

Richard

Shaun Roemich · January 2nd, 2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens;987092.

how can one fit a 16:9 image in a 4:3 square? only three ways to do this 1-letterbox 2-zoom and cut sides 3-distort the image

All three of which are "supported" by the DVD specification.

If you (or the program) doesn't set the 16:9 anamorphic flag, widescreen video will be stretched to fit the full 4:3 frame.

If the flag IS set and the display mode of the DVD is set correctly, 16:9 material will "automatically" letterbox on a 4:3 set.

If the flag is set and the display mode of the DVD is set to Pan & Scan (not sure how any of this happens in the Vegas universe, sorry), then the 16:9 video will be "centre cut" in a 4:3 window.

January 1st, 2009, 12:22 AM	#1
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	How do I render widescreen without the black bars on top/bottom but still wide? I am trying to render out a file in wide without the black bar on the top and bottom. Each time I do try to do this, the file is squashed instead of stretched out in DVD arch. I am trying to copy a style I saw in Encore, but I am at a loss how to get it. I have tried going into the prjt properties and change is to widescreen, 16:9, but I still get the same issue when I render as a mpeg2 widescreen format. Any help?

January 1st, 2009, 06:50 PM	#11
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	maybe its the pixel ratios that made the 16:9 fill a 4:3 screen, because otherwise it's impossible. Square vs whatever other option, it'd fit but the image would be compressed and out of proportion. It also depends on the TV if it can underscan etc. Just my uneducated stab here ..

January 1st, 2009, 12:39 AM	#2
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	DVDA will produce Bluray or DVD. You can get 16:9 widescreen, full frame with Bluray. However, if you're producing a DVD, by definition and standard, DVD is exclusively 4:3 format. In order to display a widescreen(16:9) video on DVD, one MUST letterbox the frame. The only way you can get full 4:3 in a SD DVD is to zoom into the image (usually before you render out) to fill the 4:3 frame and clip the sides of the widescreen image.

January 1st, 2009, 10:02 AM	#4
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	So how do I get the full widescreen without the black bars on top and bottom? I have seen it in an encore presentation that my friend has, but he natively did it in Premiere - how do I do it in Vegas? This is what is happening : I am putting the mpeg files in a DVD arch presentation - all of them are in a form of NO BLACK BARS at the top. I have to fix one of the files (originally from premiere) and render it (and I only want to re-render one of them) because when I render it, it looks completely different with the black bars at the top from the rest of the project in ARCH.

January 1st, 2009, 10:25 AM	#5
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Richard... I think you misunderstood me. You've said the same thing as I with the difference that I did not speak to display on a widescreen. Indeed, DVD will appear on a widescreen without letterboxing, but, if you display on a 4:3 set, you will get letterbox, no way around it without zooming and panning.

January 1st, 2009, 10:40 AM	#6
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	I wonder how it is done in Premiere then? When I bring the files FROM premiere (the ones that need to be fixed) into Vegas (on the computer) - it shows widescreen without black bars in the preview window and in the media files bin on vegas. BUT when I render something out with Vegas, and bring the file BACK into Vegas, it has the black bars and looks different then the file from Premiere. Do you know what I mean?

January 1st, 2009, 10:46 AM	#7
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	David... Vegas has many ways to preview footage that does not represent what you get out. What are your project properties, 4:3 or 16:9? What is your preview window set to? Simulate aspect ratio? stretch image to match window size? lots of things going on here. Bottom line....how can one fit a 16:9 image in a 4:3 square? only three ways to do this 1-letterbox 2-zoom and cut sides 3-distort the image

January 1st, 2009, 10:54 AM	#8
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Bill, I do understand what you are saying. I have set the project properties to many things trying to resolve what I believe is an issue. I see that you are saying it doesn't matter what it looks like in Vegas because it will come out fine on a DVD, but I am still trying to understand why the two files look different in Vegas if they are both widescreen.

January 1st, 2009, 11:05 AM	#9
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	FWIW... Vegas is unlike any other NLE I use. It does very weird things to images in the preview window. What you see is not what you get with vegas unless configuration settings are right.Sorry I can't be more help.