Do I Understand This Correctly?

Fred Helm · January 8th, 2009, 02:57 PM

This will surely add to the debate- Last night in San Diego's market "House" was on a major network on the SD channel and the HD channel simultaneously. The HD channel of course was full 16:9. The broadcast on the SD channel was inset letterboxed on all sides, like a 16:9 aspect but 10" smaller that the edges of both my LCD 1080p monitors. Neither tv would change the aspect. Is this the network simply saying they are gonna let the HD version fix itself on the SD channel, and this is what SD viewers get? Similary, NFL broadcast do this all the time, the program is in perfect HD and the ad breaks are inset 16:9...is anybody else seeing this?

Terry Esslinger · January 8th, 2009, 04:09 PM

Yes Fred, right there with you. Seems to happen all the time. And it IS NOT that my TV is not set up right!

Ervin Farkas · January 9th, 2009, 07:05 AM

This whole mess is due to the transition - and we not only have the analog to digital transition, but also the 4x3 to 16x9 transition.

Think about this: let's say I am shooting a show in HD/16x9, but the TV station I deliver to, still has to accommodate SD viewers; in other words, basically they have two transmitters right now, one standard def (4x3), and one digital/HD (16x9). They have to air my show simultaneously on both transmitters, so they have a tough decision to make. Most likely they will air it "as is" wide screen on the digital transmitter, but will have to put up the letterbox bars on the analog transmitter.

Now let's say I am delivering to the station a show shot in SD - it's still very common on smaller stations. If they have already changed their video processing equipment, my video runs through a 16x9 processor, so for the HD transmitter they will reformat my video in "pillarbox" format (vertical bars on the sides). But for the SD transmitter, they have to put up the horizontal bars on top and bottom - so now my video has black bars all over.

Makes sense? I can't wait for February 17 - and I hope this is not going to happen.

Mike Kujbida · January 9th, 2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ervin Farkas

I can't wait for February 17 - and I hope this is not going to happen.

Unfortunately it looks like it will :-(
A report this morning said that as many as 20,000,000 viewers aren't ready for hi-def so there's a very good chance that the date will be rolled back even further.

Bill Ravens · January 9th, 2009, 12:38 PM

Ron is right. If you use a PAR of 1.0(square) in an SD project, widescreen or not, you'll get pillarbox AND letterboxed display on a 16x9 monitor(altho' it will look right on a 4:3 monitor), and it doesn't matter what format flag you set in the header. To correctly display material that originates in square pixel aspect, on a widescreen monitor, you have to to 2 things:
1-render to a non-square PAR (like .909 PAR)
2-set the widescreen flag on the renderer.

Fred Helm · January 9th, 2009, 03:57 PM

very interesting guys, thanks. This first came up when my company delivered a season of HD to Cox Cable for broadcast in both SD and HD in the same time slot. Of course HD was brilliant and then I switched to the SD channel and it was boxed on all sides. Coming from Vegas we took alot of heat from the FCP geeks in the studio, claiming this was a Vegas issue. Its not, unless the NFL is using Vegas...I havnt heard.

January 8th, 2009, 02:57 PM	#16
Fred Helm Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: san diego, ca Posts: 150	This will surely add to the debate- Last night in San Diego's market "House" was on a major network on the SD channel and the HD channel simultaneously. The HD channel of course was full 16:9. The broadcast on the SD channel was inset letterboxed on all sides, like a 16:9 aspect but 10" smaller that the edges of both my LCD 1080p monitors. Neither tv would change the aspect. Is this the network simply saying they are gonna let the HD version fix itself on the SD channel, and this is what SD viewers get? Similary, NFL broadcast do this all the time, the program is in perfect HD and the ad breaks are inset 16:9...is anybody else seeing this? __________________ Fred Helm pinnedtv.com

January 8th, 2009, 04:09 PM	#17
Terry Esslinger Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sacramento, Elk Grove. Calif Posts: 306	Yes Fred, right there with you. Seems to happen all the time. And it IS NOT that my TV is not set up right! __________________ Puttin the wet stuff on the red stuff!

January 9th, 2009, 07:05 AM	#18
Ervin Farkas Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta/USA Posts: 2,515	It's transition time This whole mess is due to the transition - and we not only have the analog to digital transition, but also the 4x3 to 16x9 transition. Think about this: let's say I am shooting a show in HD/16x9, but the TV station I deliver to, still has to accommodate SD viewers; in other words, basically they have two transmitters right now, one standard def (4x3), and one digital/HD (16x9). They have to air my show simultaneously on both transmitters, so they have a tough decision to make. Most likely they will air it "as is" wide screen on the digital transmitter, but will have to put up the letterbox bars on the analog transmitter. Now let's say I am delivering to the station a show shot in SD - it's still very common on smaller stations. If they have already changed their video processing equipment, my video runs through a 16x9 processor, so for the HD transmitter they will reformat my video in "pillarbox" format (vertical bars on the sides). But for the SD transmitter, they have to put up the horizontal bars on top and bottom - so now my video has black bars all over. Makes sense? I can't wait for February 17 - and I hope this is not going to happen. __________________ Ervin Farkas www.AtlantaLegalVideo.com

January 9th, 2009, 03:57 PM	#21
Fred Helm Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: san diego, ca Posts: 150	very interesting guys, thanks. This first came up when my company delivered a season of HD to Cox Cable for broadcast in both SD and HD in the same time slot. Of course HD was brilliant and then I switched to the SD channel and it was boxed on all sides. Coming from Vegas we took alot of heat from the FCP geeks in the studio, claiming this was a Vegas issue. Its not, unless the NFL is using Vegas...I havnt heard. __________________ Fred Helm pinnedtv.com

January 9th, 2009, 12:38 PM	#20
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Ron is right. If you use a PAR of 1.0(square) in an SD project, widescreen or not, you'll get pillarbox AND letterboxed display on a 16x9 monitor(altho' it will look right on a 4:3 monitor), and it doesn't matter what format flag you set in the header. To correctly display material that originates in square pixel aspect, on a widescreen monitor, you have to to 2 things: 1-render to a non-square PAR (like .909 PAR) 2-set the widescreen flag on the renderer.