PAL to NTSC at DVinfo.net

Dean Morris · January 13th, 2009, 03:50 PM

Hi all,

I'm very much a lurker here but an hoping someone can help me with answering my question. I'm from Australia and PAL land, but need to make a wedding dvd in both PAL & NTSC. If I make the movies in PAL, will Architect convert and make a NTSC disc when I change the settings? I'm trying to save time by not doubling the workload of making 2 versions of the same movie and let architect do its job.

Cheers
Dean

Sam Houchins II · January 14th, 2009, 10:30 AM

I don't think DVDA will convert for you. I would have to re-render another version in Vegas to create a 2nd for NTSC. DVDA will not change frame dimensions and rates to my understanding, only bit-rates.
I've tried using Super to convert, but it did not output a playable file. I was trying different methods, and did not go back and retrry Super with different settings, so maybe it could still be an option, since when it does work, I find it works faster than other programs for file conversion.
Note: having Vegas "import" from DVD files was very buggy. It left 7 - 10 frame gaps in the sound at chapter points between the end of each chapter and the next. Dragging and dropping vob files directly to the timeline caused sound-to-video out of sync issues. I say this to point out that re-rendering the original project to NTSC is preferable to trying with Vegas to convert the PAL DVD to NTSC. Some have suggested to convert a DVD, to use a 3rd party ripper to extract the dvd files to a format (like avi, qt, wmv, etc.) that could then be better imported into Vegas for re-rendering to NTSC. Again, that's working from the DVD when the original project is not available.

Andy Olson · January 14th, 2009, 11:09 AM

Most NLE's don't do Pal to Ntsc conversions very well. Most of the time you will get stuttery motion.

After Effects can do the conversion decently. You bring in your footage as 25p and then interpret it as 24p and put it in a 24p timeline. You export it like that as 24p and add a pulldown if you want it to be 29.97. Also you'll have to slow your audio down by 4% and this will result in a pitch change.

However, the best way to do a Pal to NTSC conversion is with a software like DVFilm Atlantis. You can download a demo to try it out, but it will let you convert from Pal to Ntsc or vice versa.

Hope this helps,
Andy

Seth Bloombaum · January 14th, 2009, 11:13 AM

So far as I know, Sam is right.

You'll need to render out of Vegas in an NTSC format, then either create an NTSC project in DVDA and bring in the render, or, if you already have a PAL project in DVDA; change the project properties to NTSC and see how it looks. There may be some rework of an existing PAL project due to changing frame size.

I've had very good experience going NTSC->PAL, I expect you'll have good results going the other way, Vegas has proved to be excellent for transcoding.

Here's some reference for NTSC->PAL... going PAL->NTSC will be a very close mirror.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happ...58-dvd-uk.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happ...-pal-tips.html

Seth Bloombaum · January 14th, 2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Olson

Most NLE's don't do Pal to Ntsc conversions very well. Most of the time you will get stuttery motion...

Andy, given that the original poster's question was about doing this conversion in Vegas, and was posted on a Vegas forum, have you seen the results of standards conversions that Vegas does?

Andy Olson · January 14th, 2009, 02:24 PM

Sorry, I wasn't clear about answering his question. Vegas can do the conversion from PAL to NTSC like most other NLE's and would be better than using DVDA which might not even be able to do it. Sam is right that you should do your PAL edit and export a final version then bring that PAL version into Vegas again and set the properties of the timeline to NTSC and render a NTSC version. So, yes, it is possible, but not the best method for converting PAL to NTSC as you will lose resolution and possibly have ghosting or poor motion. You should test it to see if it's acceptable for you.

Slowing down the 25p to 24p then adding a pulldown in to get 29.97 will be better.

Best,
Andy

Sam Houchins II · January 14th, 2009, 03:57 PM

Actually, I was suggesting he render a second file, this time an NTSC version, from the original .veg file timeline if it's available, rather than trying a "conversion" from a rendered PAL file into NTSC. Doing that, project properties would be irelevant, I think, as the NTSC choice in the "render as" options will over-ride project properties and establish the necessary parameters just for the render.
The rest of my post just went on to ramble about my experiences when the original .veg file is not available. Limiting the number of generations from the original is always best.

Edward Troxel · January 14th, 2009, 04:21 PM

As I see it... Vegas uses the Main Concept encoder to create the MPEG2 files. DVD Architect uses the same Main Concept encoder to create the MPEG2 files. Either should be able to do the conversion based on that. Vegas may do a better job - I don't know as I haven't tried either one for that. The best you can do is test and see how the results look.

Richard Hunter · January 14th, 2009, 04:46 PM

Another option is to convert from PAL to 24P instead of 60i. Vegas has a procedure listed in the help file that explains how to stretch the video to change the frame rate without any conversion artifacts. A 24P DVD should play fine on all DVD players. The only possible downside is that the audio will be pitchshifted by a few percent to stay in sync with the stretched video.

Richard

Dean Morris · January 15th, 2009, 05:40 AM

Thanks everyone for your replies.
In the past, I've made clips in both formats and also made seperated discs - it's double the workload but haven't had any problems. I think I'll try to render our sample in NTSC through DVDA and send it to my relatives in Canada to test for us...figure that if they can watch it, then it should be fine. This one is going to be a freebie as we don't often need to do them -if they were paying for it, I'd go the extra mile.

Dean

January 13th, 2009, 03:50 PM	#1
Dean Morris Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 41	PAL to NTSC Hi all, I'm very much a lurker here but an hoping someone can help me with answering my question. I'm from Australia and PAL land, but need to make a wedding dvd in both PAL & NTSC. If I make the movies in PAL, will Architect convert and make a NTSC disc when I change the settings? I'm trying to save time by not doubling the workload of making 2 versions of the same movie and let architect do its job. Cheers Dean

January 14th, 2009, 11:09 AM	#3
Andy Olson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 85	Most NLE's don't do Pal to Ntsc conversions very well. Most of the time you will get stuttery motion. After Effects can do the conversion decently. You bring in your footage as 25p and then interpret it as 24p and put it in a 24p timeline. You export it like that as 24p and add a pulldown if you want it to be 29.97. Also you'll have to slow your audio down by 4% and this will result in a pitch change. However, the best way to do a Pal to NTSC conversion is with a software like DVFilm Atlantis. You can download a demo to try it out, but it will let you convert from Pal to Ntsc or vice versa. Hope this helps, Andy __________________ www.dvfilm.com

January 14th, 2009, 02:24 PM	#6
Andy Olson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 85	Sorry, I wasn't clear about answering his question. Vegas can do the conversion from PAL to NTSC like most other NLE's and would be better than using DVDA which might not even be able to do it. Sam is right that you should do your PAL edit and export a final version then bring that PAL version into Vegas again and set the properties of the timeline to NTSC and render a NTSC version. So, yes, it is possible, but not the best method for converting PAL to NTSC as you will lose resolution and possibly have ghosting or poor motion. You should test it to see if it's acceptable for you. Slowing down the 25p to 24p then adding a pulldown in to get 29.97 will be better. Best, Andy __________________ www.dvfilm.com

January 14th, 2009, 04:21 PM	#8
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	As I see it... Vegas uses the Main Concept encoder to create the MPEG2 files. DVD Architect uses the same Main Concept encoder to create the MPEG2 files. Either should be able to do the conversion based on that. Vegas may do a better job - I don't know as I haven't tried either one for that. The best you can do is test and see how the results look. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

January 14th, 2009, 10:30 AM	#2
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	I don't think DVDA will convert for you. I would have to re-render another version in Vegas to create a 2nd for NTSC. DVDA will not change frame dimensions and rates to my understanding, only bit-rates. I've tried using Super to convert, but it did not output a playable file. I was trying different methods, and did not go back and retrry Super with different settings, so maybe it could still be an option, since when it does work, I find it works faster than other programs for file conversion. Note: having Vegas "import" from DVD files was very buggy. It left 7 - 10 frame gaps in the sound at chapter points between the end of each chapter and the next. Dragging and dropping vob files directly to the timeline caused sound-to-video out of sync issues. I say this to point out that re-rendering the original project to NTSC is preferable to trying with Vegas to convert the PAL DVD to NTSC. Some have suggested to convert a DVD, to use a 3rd party ripper to extract the dvd files to a format (like avi, qt, wmv, etc.) that could then be better imported into Vegas for re-rendering to NTSC. Again, that's working from the DVD when the original project is not available.

January 14th, 2009, 11:13 AM	#4
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	So far as I know, Sam is right. You'll need to render out of Vegas in an NTSC format, then either create an NTSC project in DVDA and bring in the render, or, if you already have a PAL project in DVDA; change the project properties to NTSC and see how it looks. There may be some rework of an existing PAL project due to changing frame size. I've had very good experience going NTSC->PAL, I expect you'll have good results going the other way, Vegas has proved to be excellent for transcoding. Here's some reference for NTSC->PAL... going PAL->NTSC will be a very close mirror. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happ...58-dvd-uk.html http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happ...-pal-tips.html

January 14th, 2009, 03:57 PM	#7
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	Actually, I was suggesting he render a second file, this time an NTSC version, from the original .veg file timeline if it's available, rather than trying a "conversion" from a rendered PAL file into NTSC. Doing that, project properties would be irelevant, I think, as the NTSC choice in the "render as" options will over-ride project properties and establish the necessary parameters just for the render. The rest of my post just went on to ramble about my experiences when the original .veg file is not available. Limiting the number of generations from the original is always best.

January 14th, 2009, 04:46 PM	#9
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	Another option is to convert from PAL to 24P instead of 60i. Vegas has a procedure listed in the help file that explains how to stretch the video to change the frame rate without any conversion artifacts. A 24P DVD should play fine on all DVD players. The only possible downside is that the audio will be pitchshifted by a few percent to stay in sync with the stretched video. Richard

January 15th, 2009, 05:40 AM	#10
Dean Morris Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 41	Thanks everyone for your replies. In the past, I've made clips in both formats and also made seperated discs - it's double the workload but haven't had any problems. I think I'll try to render our sample in NTSC through DVDA and send it to my relatives in Canada to test for us...figure that if they can watch it, then it should be fine. This one is going to be a freebie as we don't often need to do them -if they were paying for it, I'd go the extra mile. Dean