Vista 64 Capture Problems

Jeff Harper · April 8th, 2009, 01:43 PM

As so many of us around here who have built our PCs around the 64 bit interface, its good you didn't tell us that before we made our purchases. We might have been scared away.

Luckily I've used 64 bit Vista on a Dell, two DIY PCs, and an HP laptop, so I've been fortunate to have not have these issues.

Rick Diaz · April 8th, 2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Miller

The *only* difference is the OS - specifically the drivers for the FireWire interface and the logical protocols at work (DV, HDV and the transport controls). If one or more of the (Microsoft supplied) drivers is at fault then there are a myriad of potential reasons ranging from incorrect registry information, a bug in the driver that only affects HDV streams coming from a particular FireWire chipset or a bug in the firmware in the FireWire controller.

Since so many of us are using Vista 64 with those same MS-certified drivers I think it prudent to assume that it is not the OS and more likely the hardware and/or its configuration that is at fault. That V64 is not working properly on his configuration is not the blame of the OS. Too many PC manufacturers are selling units and offering V64 with little, if any, testing to assure that it works with a specific configuration. When I bought my HP Media Center PC I was assured that it had been tested with V64 and that all hardware and drivers were certified for use with that OS. So far, I have had no problems with hardware/software incompatibilities. I still maintain that it's not the OS at fault here. More likely is that the OS is unsuitable for the hardware configuration of this particular computer. If it were me, I'd be making Acer take it back instead of accepting a kludgy workaround and hoping for a fix that will probably never come (not from MS, anyway).

Jeff Harper · April 8th, 2009, 02:43 PM

That's what I'm sayin'. I don't get it either, Rick.

"I got a new PC but I can't capture with it" doesn't make sense. But it is his money and effort being spent, not mine. I have enough issues when everything is working correctly, let alone wondering what the next issue with my PC will be.

Rick Diaz · April 8th, 2009, 03:07 PM

Well, I do think video editing in general does appeal to the masochistic tendencies in some of us. ;)

Jeff Harper · April 8th, 2009, 03:28 PM

Apparently.

Rick Diaz · April 8th, 2009, 03:41 PM

If anyone's interested, here's a link to a completely unscientific poll on this subject that I started on a forum I moderate.
Capturing with Vista 64 - Canon HV20, HV30 & HV40 User Forum

David Rice · April 8th, 2009, 05:29 PM

I am capturing with one computer using XP, and editing with another Vista 64 Vegas 8.1. I'm happy with the current set up. Why does that bother some?

Rick Diaz · April 8th, 2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Rice

I am capturing with one computer using XP, and editing with another Vista 64 Vegas 8.1. I'm happy with the current set up. Why does that bother some?

I don't think it does. What is bothersome is your repeated slam of Vista 64, when in fact your problem appears to have little to do with the OS. Glad you found a workaround you can live with, but most of us wouldn't. Not with a new PC, anyway.

Terry Esslinger · April 9th, 2009, 11:30 AM

David,
Have you tried, while editing your HDV footage with the V64, to apply any audio fx effects? Does it work correctly. I have found it impossible to use the audio fx effetcs in my new V64 with Vegas8.1 using an i7 processer. And others have found the problem to be reproducable. They work fine on the same machine (V64) using Vegas 8.0. Appears to be a bug in 8.1.

Ron Evans · April 9th, 2009, 11:53 AM

Vegas 8.1 will only work with 64 bit codecs or filters. So if you are trying to get it to work with the set of filters that that show in Vegas not all have full 64 bit implementations and will not work. For instance I use Edius for video editing and Vegas for audio. I can produce a Canopus HQ final output file that will work in Vegas 8.0 but will not work in Vegas 8.1 Reason is that there isn't a 64 bit Canopus HQ codec so Vegas 8.1 can't use the file. I believe this issue is true for a lot of filters that are available and show up in the list. It would have been nice if Vegas 8.1 greyed out the ones that do no work in 64 bit environment. Personally I just use Vegas 8.0c now!!!!

Ron Evansd

Dale Guthormsen · April 9th, 2009, 07:23 PM

Good Evening,

I have to concur with Ron and Terry here.

I do not believe 8.1 is ready for a real drive!!

I do not think that DVD ARc 5.0a is ready yet either!!!

Sense I went back to 8,0c and DVD ARC 5.0 version 170, all seems semi normal in my daily universe!!!

Perhaps it is these new I7's compounded with vista 64, but I think not!!! Why would everything else work properly?

I will say this, 8.1 will render faster. If you have a real big project (I finished up a 2.5 hour wedding on 8.1) it might be worth opening up 8,1 uploading, renaming it and then rendering it.

However, I just put the wraps on an 1hr 15 minute HD program edited in cineform codec, heavily color corrected, time stretched, stabilized, and noise reduced with some other FX as well. The render time on this and burning a blu ray off the time line ( it was about 19 gigs) took about 2.5 to 3 hours on 8.0c.. I am not sure if that's fast or not, but it did the job just fine and the product was superlative.

I am not so sure there is any real advantage to 8.1 at this point, though I have it on my secondary computer.

David Rice · April 10th, 2009, 06:27 AM

I give up. Vista 64 has capture problems, and 8.1 doesn't work properly. I removed Vista 64, and installed Vista 32. Now I have no more capture problems, and Vegas 8.0c hums along.

Vista 64 went into the round file where it belongs.

Ron Evans · April 10th, 2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Rice

I give up. Vista 64 has capture problems, and 8.1 doesn't work properly. I removed Vista 64, and installed Vista 32. Now I have no more capture problems, and Vegas 8.0c hums along.

Vista 64 went into the round file where it belongs.

I thought you gave up a little while back. The problem isn't Vista 64 its your computer as lots of us have been telling you for a while. I have a Q9450, 8G RAM, running Vista 64 and have no problems running Edius 5, Vegas 8.0 and 8.1, Premiere CS3, Sound Forge, TMPGenc Xpress 4, TMpgenc Authorworks, DVDLab Pro2, DVD Architect 5, Cineform Neo Scene, and many other programs. The real beauty of Vista 64 is that when running 32bit apps they all have their full allotment of RAM so several can run simultaneously. I have been really pleased with running Vista 64 and certainly have had no problems whatsoever with the OS.
Have I had problems. Yes. Cineform Neo Scene and DVD Architect 5.0a do not like each other!!! Reverting to DVD Architect 5.0 solved this problem.

Ron Evans

Steve Renouf · April 10th, 2009, 07:44 AM

Hmm... Just my 2 penneth...

I didn't see your reply to the question someone asked about whether your V64 installation was fully patched (ie. SP1 etc.) as it could potentially solve issues such as this.

Like most others here, I very quickly reverted back to V8.0c. However, that isn't really the issue here.

I'm no M$ fan to be perfectly honest and avoided Vista for as long as humanly possible. I'm still no great fan (in IMHO W2K was their best OS) but even I have to admit that since I (eventually managed to - but that's another story entirely) update it to SP1 it solved several issues I had on my 64bit AMD/ASUS V64 system and is now working fine. The only hardware issue remaining is that my Hauppauge PVR150 isn't supported in V64.

However, having now used it for some time (mainly for running Vegas) I have warmed to it somewhat (which, for someone who LOVES Linux, is some achievement).

Still, that is beside the point. The reason I mention Hauppauge PVR150 here is that it displays the same type of issue you are having with your setup. V64 sees my PVR150 and correctly reports it - and even tries to tune it to the stations. However, it doesn't quite succeed - because the hardware drivers are not optimised for V64 (although it will work fine in V32). This leads me to believe that what several people have put forward as the possible issue could in fact be the case.

i.e. That the capture card hardware installed in your system is not fully optimised for 64 bit operation and that that is causing a problem with the HDV stream not being correctly handed off to the system. The fact that so few people are having any issues with V64 in this respect and the the card apparently works fine in V32 would seem to bear this out.

I wracked my brains for ages when trying to figure out what the problem was with my PVR150 - until I eventually went direct to Hauppauge and they explained to me that's what the problem was - the hardware was not optimised for 64bit and would therefore not work properly in ANY 64bit OS. [edit] I forgot to mention here that I think they meant any WINDOWS 64bit OS, as it works perfectly in Linux 64bit, but using 32bit drivers.[/edit]

It may be worthwhile looking at the manufactrurer of your capture card for a solution input on the situation, as it may simply be the same thing and someone has cocked up by incorporating a non-64bit card into a system which has had V64 installed (assuming that the V64 was what the system actually came installed with in the first place).

[edit 2]I ought to mention here that even HP managed to do this on at least one of their desktop models with the builtin webcam![/edit 2]

Steve Renouf · April 10th, 2009, 08:10 AM

Just an aside to something someone said about Acer products being crap. That's utter rubbish! They manufacture a whole spectrum of products at all price-points and obviously a cheaper model is going to have some compromises - regardless of the manufacter or OEM. It may come as a surprise to some that the Acer factories in Taiwan have been supplying components to other OEMs for decades.

I personally have an Acer Travelmate that I have had since 2001 and has been so well used on a daily basis (running a business) that the letters have worn off the keys. I still would use it except that the CPU fan has given up the ghost after god knows how many 1000s hours of use in a dusty atmosphere and several cleans over the years (you should have seen the crap I hooked out of the cooling fins!)

Anyway, I now run an HP laptop (it was the only one I could lay my hands on in a hurry that had all the I/O features I require at a reasonable price) but, given the option, I would have preferred another Acer and may still get one later on at some point (would have to get it in Thailand for the Thai keyboard) but, in the meantime I'm reasonably happy with the HP (apart from having to use an external keyboard when I need to use Thai language). Being based in Jersey, I couldn't just jump on a plane to get a new laptop in Thailand when the Acer fan gave out so I had to make do with what was readily available.

April 9th, 2009, 11:30 AM	#54
Terry Esslinger Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sacramento, Elk Grove. Calif Posts: 306	David, Have you tried, while editing your HDV footage with the V64, to apply any audio fx effects? Does it work correctly. I have found it impossible to use the audio fx effetcs in my new V64 with Vegas8.1 using an i7 processer. And others have found the problem to be reproducable. They work fine on the same machine (V64) using Vegas 8.0. Appears to be a bug in 8.1. __________________ Puttin the wet stuff on the red stuff!

April 9th, 2009, 07:23 PM	#56
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Good Evening, I have to concur with Ron and Terry here. I do not believe 8.1 is ready for a real drive!! I do not think that DVD ARc 5.0a is ready yet either!!! Sense I went back to 8,0c and DVD ARC 5.0 version 170, all seems semi normal in my daily universe!!! Perhaps it is these new I7's compounded with vista 64, but I think not!!! Why would everything else work properly? I will say this, 8.1 will render faster. If you have a real big project (I finished up a 2.5 hour wedding on 8.1) it might be worth opening up 8,1 uploading, renaming it and then rendering it. However, I just put the wraps on an 1hr 15 minute HD program edited in cineform codec, heavily color corrected, time stretched, stabilized, and noise reduced with some other FX as well. The render time on this and burning a blu ray off the time line ( it was about 19 gigs) took about 2.5 to 3 hours on 8.0c.. I am not sure if that's fast or not, but it did the job just fine and the product was superlative. I am not so sure there is any real advantage to 8.1 at this point, though I have it on my secondary computer. __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

April 10th, 2009, 07:44 AM	#59
Steve Renouf Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Jersey, GB Posts: 182	Hmm... Just my 2 penneth... I didn't see your reply to the question someone asked about whether your V64 installation was fully patched (ie. SP1 etc.) as it could potentially solve issues such as this. Like most others here, I very quickly reverted back to V8.0c. However, that isn't really the issue here. I'm no M$ fan to be perfectly honest and avoided Vista for as long as humanly possible. I'm still no great fan (in IMHO W2K was their best OS) but even I have to admit that since I (eventually managed to - but that's another story entirely) update it to SP1 it solved several issues I had on my 64bit AMD/ASUS V64 system and is now working fine. The only hardware issue remaining is that my Hauppauge PVR150 isn't supported in V64. However, having now used it for some time (mainly for running Vegas) I have warmed to it somewhat (which, for someone who LOVES Linux, is some achievement). Still, that is beside the point. The reason I mention Hauppauge PVR150 here is that it displays the same type of issue you are having with your setup. V64 sees my PVR150 and correctly reports it - and even tries to tune it to the stations. However, it doesn't quite succeed - because the hardware drivers are not optimised for V64 (although it will work fine in V32). This leads me to believe that what several people have put forward as the possible issue could in fact be the case. i.e. That the capture card hardware installed in your system is not fully optimised for 64 bit operation and that that is causing a problem with the HDV stream not being correctly handed off to the system. The fact that so few people are having any issues with V64 in this respect and the the card apparently works fine in V32 would seem to bear this out. I wracked my brains for ages when trying to figure out what the problem was with my PVR150 - until I eventually went direct to Hauppauge and they explained to me that's what the problem was - the hardware was not optimised for 64bit and would therefore not work properly in ANY 64bit OS. [edit] I forgot to mention here that I think they meant any WINDOWS 64bit OS, as it works perfectly in Linux 64bit, but using 32bit drivers.[/edit] It may be worthwhile looking at the manufactrurer of your capture card for a solution input on the situation, as it may simply be the same thing and someone has cocked up by incorporating a non-64bit card into a system which has had V64 installed (assuming that the V64 was what the system actually came installed with in the first place). [edit 2]I ought to mention here that even HP managed to do this on at least one of their desktop models with the builtin webcam![/edit 2] Last edited by Steve Renouf; April 10th, 2009 at 07:52 AM. Reason: additional info

April 10th, 2009, 08:10 AM	#60
Steve Renouf Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Jersey, GB Posts: 182	Ot: Acer Just an aside to something someone said about Acer products being crap. That's utter rubbish! They manufacture a whole spectrum of products at all price-points and obviously a cheaper model is going to have some compromises - regardless of the manufacter or OEM. It may come as a surprise to some that the Acer factories in Taiwan have been supplying components to other OEMs for decades. I personally have an Acer Travelmate that I have had since 2001 and has been so well used on a daily basis (running a business) that the letters have worn off the keys. I still would use it except that the CPU fan has given up the ghost after god knows how many 1000s hours of use in a dusty atmosphere and several cleans over the years (you should have seen the crap I hooked out of the cooling fins!) Anyway, I now run an HP laptop (it was the only one I could lay my hands on in a hurry that had all the I/O features I require at a reasonable price) but, given the option, I would have preferred another Acer and may still get one later on at some point (would have to get it in Thailand for the Thai keyboard) but, in the meantime I'm reasonably happy with the HP (apart from having to use an external keyboard when I need to use Thai language). Being based in Jersey, I couldn't just jump on a plane to get a new laptop in Thailand when the Acer fan gave out so I had to make do with what was readily available.

April 8th, 2009, 01:43 PM	#46
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	As so many of us around here who have built our PCs around the 64 bit interface, its good you didn't tell us that before we made our purchases. We might have been scared away. Luckily I've used 64 bit Vista on a Dell, two DIY PCs, and an HP laptop, so I've been fortunate to have not have these issues.

April 8th, 2009, 02:43 PM	#48
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	That's what I'm sayin'. I don't get it either, Rick. "I got a new PC but I can't capture with it" doesn't make sense. But it is his money and effort being spent, not mine. I have enough issues when everything is working correctly, let alone wondering what the next issue with my PC will be.

April 8th, 2009, 03:07 PM	#49
Rick Diaz Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 146	Well, I do think video editing in general does appeal to the masochistic tendencies in some of us. ;)

April 8th, 2009, 03:28 PM	#50
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Apparently.

April 8th, 2009, 03:41 PM	#51
Rick Diaz Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 146	If anyone's interested, here's a link to a completely unscientific poll on this subject that I started on a forum I moderate. Capturing with Vista 64 - Canon HV20, HV30 & HV40 User Forum

April 8th, 2009, 05:29 PM	#52
David Rice Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sitka Alaska Posts: 470	I am capturing with one computer using XP, and editing with another Vista 64 Vegas 8.1. I'm happy with the current set up. Why does that bother some?

April 9th, 2009, 11:53 AM	#55
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Vegas 8.1 will only work with 64 bit codecs or filters. So if you are trying to get it to work with the set of filters that that show in Vegas not all have full 64 bit implementations and will not work. For instance I use Edius for video editing and Vegas for audio. I can produce a Canopus HQ final output file that will work in Vegas 8.0 but will not work in Vegas 8.1 Reason is that there isn't a 64 bit Canopus HQ codec so Vegas 8.1 can't use the file. I believe this issue is true for a lot of filters that are available and show up in the list. It would have been nice if Vegas 8.1 greyed out the ones that do no work in 64 bit environment. Personally I just use Vegas 8.0c now!!!! Ron Evansd

April 10th, 2009, 06:27 AM	#57
David Rice Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sitka Alaska Posts: 470	I give up. Vista 64 has capture problems, and 8.1 doesn't work properly. I removed Vista 64, and installed Vista 32. Now I have no more capture problems, and Vegas 8.0c hums along. Vista 64 went into the round file where it belongs.