Is the main volume a temporary or permanent? at DVinfo.net

David Ho · March 16th, 2004, 01:29 AM

What I mean is.... in the past, I've used programs where the main volume is like the volume knob on the speakers -- it's not necessarily the real volume of the sound, it's just the volume projected by the speakers, so it is loud.... I want to know if the main volume is the actual volume, like if you set the main volume highest, and export it back on the tape, it would be at the highest and not just loudness for the speakers. I seem to have a problem in Vegas of finding the correct volume because I have so many audio clips of different loudness, so raising the main volume saves me some time, but I am wondering if this is the permanent effect. I hope this makes sense.

Tor Salomonsen · March 16th, 2004, 02:43 AM

David, if you are going to keep on posting your questions to several forums at almost the same time a lot of people will be very tired of you very quickly.

David Ho · March 16th, 2004, 02:57 AM

Well, I just want the most help I can.

Tor Salomonsen · March 16th, 2004, 03:27 AM

If you look in the vegas manual, page 37 i think, there's a Audio flow diagram. it shows you that what comes out from the master bus is what goes to whatever tape or hardvware you are using. Render a project, and that's the volume you get. Make sure it stays below zero dB.
But Vegas does not control the settings of your soundcard or of the equipment you use to play the rendered project afterwards. So anything can happen to you volume then - however, the master bus is a good reference point.

David Ho · March 16th, 2004, 03:49 AM

Hmm... I have most of my audio/video tracks set at 8-10dB, the main volume that is. The inside presets are 0dB when you click on the audio plugins, I believe the track FX are 0dB, but the main volume is high. The combination I'm using to find the perfect sound is lowering the gain on the audio clips that are loud, and raising the gain with a combination of the volume envelopes on the clips that are soft, so in the end, I get a result of both the audio clips as about same volume when you play/preview it. The main volume helps cause I don't have to mess around with the other volume settings as much. If I set the main volume high, then I can just "lower" all the other ones from there to equal it out....

My original question was that if the main volume is set at permanent, like what I hear is what I'll get in tape, and not any crazy variations...then it's all good. :-)

Peter Jefferson · March 16th, 2004, 04:49 AM

i have no idea what you are rambling on about up there, but put it this way...

think of each track as an entity... a voice persay..

now look at your mixer..
think of that as your ear...

now.. each track can be individually controlled... each VOICE can be made louder softer, filtered, processed, effected etc etc...

but in the end.. what your EAR hears (ie what ur mixer is set to ) is what ur final mix will sound like...

Your main volume.(Ie your master volume mixer controls) cannot be adjusted on the fly like the runbber banding of bus sends, keyframed EQ's.. if u want to do this, you can only do it in the timeline.. not main mixer...

dude.. here's a tip...

highlight your audio clip, right click and go down to switches.. select NORMALISE...
this will boost audio to as high as it will go depending on your normalisation settings in your master properties.
(this is of the top of my head so i might be a little off)

from here.. adjust your levels WITHOUT adjusting masters...

now, in the actual track... on the left hand side, select your effects config.. its automatically set to EQ, Compression and noise gate.

adjust whatever you need here..
these are NON keyframeable.. BUT.. u CAN keyframe these effects by selecting "effects automation envelopes"

now from here, what your master level is set to (master effects level that is) don't matter.. because your remotely controlling it with the small bands you now see which correspond with your chosen effect...

you can do this with volume.. difference is MASTER volume won't ever change... only what is being sent to the master volume will change...

i dunno if the above makes any sense to you.. if not write a post here and i'll try to clarify...

vegas is awsome,.. don't let its intensity slow you down

Edward Troxel · March 16th, 2004, 08:27 AM

YES It affects the final output!

David Ho · March 16th, 2004, 09:54 AM

Well, my MAIN MIXER is at default volume. But I have messed around with the main volume (on the left) and different combinations of low/high audio envelopes and switching the gain on different clips, but now when I play it and hear it, it is fine. As long as I am able to hear it correctly and the way I want it, it will be like that during the final product right? I will be experimenting to see if it is the same or not when I print it back to tape.

Edward Troxel · March 16th, 2004, 10:12 AM

Look at the meters beside the master mix sliders. THIS is your output level.

Chris Hurd · March 16th, 2004, 10:18 AM

Hi David,

<< it will be like that during the final product right? >>

The power to determine the answer to this is firmly in your own hands. Try it for yourself and find out.

David Ho · March 16th, 2004, 12:03 PM

The meters inside the audio tracks have 0dB both input and output. It's just that I have raised the main volume and lowered the gain/audio envelopes to change the volume.

I guess what I am trying to say is "will all the volume controls (including the main volume on the left panel) have an affect on the output? the main volume is not just a 'temporary' playback volume, right?"

Glenn Chan · March 16th, 2004, 03:49 PM

Quote:

I guess what I am trying to say is "will all the volume controls (including the main volume on the left panel) have an affect on the output?

Yes, they all affect the final output (even the mute and solo buttons).

Quote:

As long as I am able to hear it correctly and the way I want it, it will be like that during the final product right?

That depends on who your audience is and what their listening environment is. You can get some nasty surprises when you mix on headphones (where you can hear everything including quiet dialogue) and then play it back on a TV with busted speakers and not hear any of the dialogue. There are some other pitfalls to watch out for. Jay Rose's books on audio post covers these (do you have these?).

David Ho · March 16th, 2004, 04:34 PM

Well, I am hearing it through just plain speakers. But normally, it should be the same volume. As long as it's the same volume of my output when the final product comes out, it's okay. I mean, sure, it wouldn't sound the same if they TV was busted or something, but I'm just saying the final product = the same volume as what I am hearing. I hope this makes more sense.

I guess another question I have that comes out of this is.... You know when you listen to songs or movies or television shows where the main volume is super quiet, so when you turn up the playback volume on either your TV, headphones, or anything, you will hear a lot of hiss because the volume is low, and there is already a small hiss on everything... I am wondering if this will happen, but I yet to experiment.

Harry Settle · March 16th, 2004, 05:51 PM

This has been an informative post, David. I have been playing with the sound in some of my projects trying to push up the volume because it seemed like it comes out so low when viewed on tv. Then I noticed some clipping on my last practice project, and the red numbers at the top of the mixer bar. I also noticed that the sound (volume) on store bought DVD movies is also very low, requiring a higher than normal setting of the tv volume.

By the way. . . if you have questions. . . ask. Otherwise things will get very frustrating, needlessly.

Glenn Chan · March 16th, 2004, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Well, I am hearing it through just plain speakers. But normally, it should be the same volume. As long as it's the same volume of my output when the final product comes out, it's okay. I mean, sure, it wouldn't sound the same if they TV was busted or something, but I'm just saying the final product = the same volume as what I am hearing. I hope this makes more sense.

Well you may not get "the same volume" if you're talking about sound pressure levels (the sound energy that hits your ears). In Jay Rose's books he recommends getting a sound pressure level meter to match up volumes. This may not really be a concern for you. It is a concern for theatrical films (pretty good listening environment + good speakers).

Quote:

I guess another question I have that comes out of this is.... You know when you listen to songs or movies or television shows where the main volume is super quiet, so when you turn up the playback volume on either your TV, headphones, or anything, you will hear a lot of hiss because the volume is low, and there is already a small hiss on everything... I am wondering if this will happen, but I yet to experiment.

You need to know what your target format is and master your audio appropriately. This is covered in Jay Rose's books (audio post production one, check dplay.com). I don't know of any better ones.

If you set your volume too low then the user increasing the volume will increase any noise inherent in the medium plus the person's playback chain. You should get the volume correctly in the first place, but that depends on your target format and the audience's listening environment.

March 16th, 2004, 01:29 AM	#1
David Ho Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 354	Is the main volume a temporary or permanent? What I mean is.... in the past, I've used programs where the main volume is like the volume knob on the speakers -- it's not necessarily the real volume of the sound, it's just the volume projected by the speakers, so it is loud.... I want to know if the main volume is the actual volume, like if you set the main volume highest, and export it back on the tape, it would be at the highest and not just loudness for the speakers. I seem to have a problem in Vegas of finding the correct volume because I have so many audio clips of different loudness, so raising the main volume saves me some time, but I am wondering if this is the permanent effect. I hope this makes sense. __________________ "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."

March 16th, 2004, 02:57 AM	#3
David Ho Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 354	Well, I just want the most help I can. __________________ "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."

March 16th, 2004, 03:49 AM	#5
David Ho Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 354	Hmm... I have most of my audio/video tracks set at 8-10dB, the main volume that is. The inside presets are 0dB when you click on the audio plugins, I believe the track FX are 0dB, but the main volume is high. The combination I'm using to find the perfect sound is lowering the gain on the audio clips that are loud, and raising the gain with a combination of the volume envelopes on the clips that are soft, so in the end, I get a result of both the audio clips as about same volume when you play/preview it. The main volume helps cause I don't have to mess around with the other volume settings as much. If I set the main volume high, then I can just "lower" all the other ones from there to equal it out.... My original question was that if the main volume is set at permanent, like what I hear is what I'll get in tape, and not any crazy variations...then it's all good. :-) __________________ "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."

March 16th, 2004, 09:54 AM	#8
David Ho Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 354	Well, my MAIN MIXER is at default volume. But I have messed around with the main volume (on the left) and different combinations of low/high audio envelopes and switching the gain on different clips, but now when I play it and hear it, it is fine. As long as I am able to hear it correctly and the way I want it, it will be like that during the final product right? I will be experimenting to see if it is the same or not when I print it back to tape. __________________ "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."

March 16th, 2004, 10:18 AM	#10
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Hi David, << it will be like that during the final product right? >> The power to determine the answer to this is firmly in your own hands. Try it for yourself and find out. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 16th, 2004, 02:43 AM	#2
Tor Salomonsen Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stavanger, Norway Posts: 265	David, if you are going to keep on posting your questions to several forums at almost the same time a lot of people will be very tired of you very quickly.

March 16th, 2004, 03:27 AM	#4
Tor Salomonsen Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stavanger, Norway Posts: 265	If you look in the vegas manual, page 37 i think, there's a Audio flow diagram. it shows you that what comes out from the master bus is what goes to whatever tape or hardvware you are using. Render a project, and that's the volume you get. Make sure it stays below zero dB. But Vegas does not control the settings of your soundcard or of the equipment you use to play the rendered project afterwards. So anything can happen to you volume then - however, the master bus is a good reference point.

March 16th, 2004, 04:49 AM	#6
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	i have no idea what you are rambling on about up there, but put it this way... think of each track as an entity... a voice persay.. now look at your mixer.. think of that as your ear... now.. each track can be individually controlled... each VOICE can be made louder softer, filtered, processed, effected etc etc... but in the end.. what your EAR hears (ie what ur mixer is set to ) is what ur final mix will sound like... Your main volume.(Ie your master volume mixer controls) cannot be adjusted on the fly like the runbber banding of bus sends, keyframed EQ's.. if u want to do this, you can only do it in the timeline.. not main mixer... dude.. here's a tip... highlight your audio clip, right click and go down to switches.. select NORMALISE... this will boost audio to as high as it will go depending on your normalisation settings in your master properties. (this is of the top of my head so i might be a little off) from here.. adjust your levels WITHOUT adjusting masters... now, in the actual track... on the left hand side, select your effects config.. its automatically set to EQ, Compression and noise gate. adjust whatever you need here.. these are NON keyframeable.. BUT.. u CAN keyframe these effects by selecting "effects automation envelopes" now from here, what your master level is set to (master effects level that is) don't matter.. because your remotely controlling it with the small bands you now see which correspond with your chosen effect... you can do this with volume.. difference is MASTER volume won't ever change... only what is being sent to the master volume will change... i dunno if the above makes any sense to you.. if not write a post here and i'll try to clarify... vegas is awsome,.. don't let its intensity slow you down

March 16th, 2004, 08:27 AM	#7
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	YES It affects the final output!

March 16th, 2004, 10:12 AM	#9
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Look at the meters beside the master mix sliders. THIS is your output level.

March 16th, 2004, 12:03 PM	#11
David Ho Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 354	The meters inside the audio tracks have 0dB both input and output. It's just that I have raised the main volume and lowered the gain/audio envelopes to change the volume. I guess what I am trying to say is "will all the volume controls (including the main volume on the left panel) have an affect on the output? the main volume is not just a 'temporary' playback volume, right?" __________________ "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."

March 16th, 2004, 04:34 PM	#13
David Ho Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 354	Well, I am hearing it through just plain speakers. But normally, it should be the same volume. As long as it's the same volume of my output when the final product comes out, it's okay. I mean, sure, it wouldn't sound the same if they TV was busted or something, but I'm just saying the final product = the same volume as what I am hearing. I hope this makes more sense. I guess another question I have that comes out of this is.... You know when you listen to songs or movies or television shows where the main volume is super quiet, so when you turn up the playback volume on either your TV, headphones, or anything, you will hear a lot of hiss because the volume is low, and there is already a small hiss on everything... I am wondering if this will happen, but I yet to experiment. __________________ "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."

March 16th, 2004, 05:51 PM	#14
Harry Settle Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bemidji, MN Posts: 276	This has been an informative post, David. I have been playing with the sound in some of my projects trying to push up the volume because it seemed like it comes out so low when viewed on tv. Then I noticed some clipping on my last practice project, and the red numbers at the top of the mixer bar. I also noticed that the sound (volume) on store bought DVD movies is also very low, requiring a higher than normal setting of the tv volume. By the way. . . if you have questions. . . ask. Otherwise things will get very frustrating, needlessly. __________________ "DOH"!!!