Vegas 6.0 playing nice with 9.0?

[Brian Luce]

I have Vegas 6 and 9 and have some m2t footage from a ProHD camera. Need to do some heavy grading and FX. 6 has Cineform, 9 doesn't, and I dont want to buy Neo or whatever. Is there a way to switch between the two to utilize the cineform when needed? if so, what would be the ideal way to do that?

[Perrone Ford]

Put original files in v6, render Cineform .avi. Open .avi in v9 and finish.

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

All you need to do is simply install the freeware "Cineform Player" from their site. It will install a system-wide playback codec, that Vegas 9 will pickup.

You can also rename the cfhd.dll on your vegas6 folder to something else, e.g. cfhd.dll-OLD, so this way you can force Vegas 6 to use the newer Cineform codec too.

> Put original files in v6, render Cineform .avi. Open .avi in v9 and finish.

Perrone, without installing the cineform codec as mentioned above this won't work, because version 9 of Vegas doesn't include Cineform anymore by default.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Eugenia Loli-Queru

All you need to do is simply install the freeware "Cineform Player" from their site. It will install a system-wide playback codec, that Vegas 9 will pickup.

You can also rename the cfhd.dll on your vegas6 folder to something else, e.g. cfhd.dll-OLD, so this way you can force Vegas 6 to use the newer Cineform codec too.

> Put original files in v6, render Cineform .avi. Open .avi in v9 and finish.

Perrone, without installing the cineform codec as mentioned above this won't work, because version 9 of Vegas doesn't include Cineform anymore by default.

And sadly, by installing the NEW cineform codec from downloading NeoScene, v6 won't render with it. I played this game for nearly a year before I simply abandoned Cineform altogether and went with a different intermediate. The CFHD.dll version 3.3.x was the last one that worked for rendering. I had it saved somewhere just in case, but I haven't gone back to that workflow.

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

>by installing the NEW cineform codec from downloading NeoScene, v6 won't render with it.

First of all, I didn't suggest this guy install NeoSCENE, I told him to only install the Cineform Player package, which *only* includes a playback codec, not an encoder. So I don't think it would mess up anything. Vegas 6 will do its thing as it always did, and Vegas 9 will now be able to read these files back.

Also, I find it a bit unbelievable that Vegas 6 won't render in Cineform anymore if another Cineform encoder is installed on the system. You see, Vegas will first look at its own directory to find a suitable codec (and Vegas 6 comes with one), and only if it doesn't find one will go and read the system's VfW codec resource.

[Brian Luce]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

And sadly, by installing the NEW cineform codec from downloading NeoScene, v6 won't render with it. I played this game for nearly a year before I simply abandoned Cineform altogether and went with a different intermediate. The CFHD.dll version 3.3.x was the last one that worked for rendering. I had it saved somewhere just in case, but I haven't gone back to that workflow.

Okay so a bit confused here, will your initial suggestion work or not? If it does, why'd you abandon it? Also, What IC are you using now in lieu of CF?

Btw, I wish Sony hadn't stopped using CF, seems like an incomplete system without some sort of IC. Native GOP editing is not out of the woods yet. We need our IC's.

Update: So far, the Perrone Ford method is working -- no CF player installation was necessary. Though it appears I'm limited to 720p 25 and 30p fps and 1080 50 and 60i, CF files.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Eugenia Loli-Queru

>by installing the NEW cineform codec from downloading NeoScene, v6 won't render with it.

First of all, I didn't suggest this guy install NeoSCENE, I told him to only install the Cineform Player package, which *only* includes a playback codec, not an encoder. So I don't think it would mess up anything. Vegas 6 will do its thing as it always did, and Vegas 9 will now be able to read these files back.

Same difference. They both break Vegas. Installing the player updates the CFHD.dll files. I did it in Vegas 6, and Vegas 7. Had trouble tickets with Cineform to prove it. When I moved to V8, I abandoned it because I was tired of the dll gyrations to make it all work.

Originally Posted by Eugenia Loli-Queru

Also, I find it a bit unbelievable that Vegas 6 won't render in Cineform anymore if another Cineform encoder is installed on the system. You see, Vegas will first look at its own directory to find a suitable codec (and Vegas 6 comes with one), and only if it doesn't find one will go and read the system's VfW codec resource.

You may well find it unbelievable, but it's true none the less. And no, Vegas DOES NOT look at it's own directory first to find the Cineform codec. I tested this with tech support and in every case, I had to change the file in the system32 folder to make Vegas work properly. I don't know WHY it works that way. I posted about here long ago and got into a heated argument about it with David who subsequently sent me to Tech Support to open a ticket.

Here is a link to my post in Dec. 2008 with David again just before I abandoned Cineform: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/cineform-...eak-vegas.html

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

Update: So far, the Perrone Ford method is working -- no CF player installation was necessary. Though it appears I'm limited to 720p CF files.

Of course it's working. Vegas 9 is referencing the system32 folder to pick up the Cineform CFHD.dll file like it always does. The only issue is that you can't render out of V9 with the Cineform codec. And of course you won't be able to open any V9 .veg files with v6.

Ultimately, I moved to using .mov containers for a lot of reasons. I could use 10bit codecs at will, use wavelet codecs, trade files easily with my friends on Macs, etc. The UGLY sticking point is that these files play very poorly on the Vegas timeline because quicktime has to be referenced. So you'll never get more than maybe 5-8fps playback on the timeline. If I am working on a project where I need smooth playing on the timeline, I do offline/online workflow and use a proxy-sized Lagarith or Sony YUV file.

Shelling out $499 for Cineform HD will put all the issues to bed if you want to go that route.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

Though it appears I'm limited to 720p 25 and 30p fps and 1080 50 and 60i, CF files.

The freebie was only intended to support up to HDV sized files. This is why I could only deliver 720p back then. As even the consumer cams moved past HDV I needed a (cheap/free) solution that could work with 1920x1080 and beyond.

[Brian Luce]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

The only issue is that you can't render out of V9 with the Cineform codec.
.

I just put a V6 rendered CF file on a V9 timeline with a m2t file and rendered them out (in V9 of course) as an avi. Seems to work fine.

Did you mean that V9 can't actually create the CF file in the first place?

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

Did you mean that V9 can't actually create the CF file in the first place?

Yes, that's what I meant. BUT, give it a try. I am curious if it works. Since you have not installed the new player, you won't have any competition for those CFHD.dll files and it just might work!

[Brian Luce]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Yes, that's what I meant. BUT, give it a try. I am curious if it works. Since you have not installed the new player, you won't have any competition for those CFHD.dll files and it just might work!

It seems to work perfectly. It's not a bad Poorman's Workaround for those who don't want to pony up $500 for the CF box. Just turn your old Vegas 6 into an intermediary codec sweat shop to feed to Vegas 9 discreet frame files.

I'm not going to try and install the CF Player. I learned a long time ago, at a certain point, you should stop fixing things.

[Perrone Ford]

As long as you don't need 1920x1080 you're golden.

[Bill Binder]

Hmmm. My Vegas 8 rendered Cineform files did not play in Vegas 9 when I first tried it, and I assumed installing the player would NOT work because I've had the same experience as others here -- installing any real Cineform software used to break the Vegas version of Cineform for me. It wasn't until I uninstalled the player that my Vegas 8 would start letting me encode to Cineform again. But, maybe I should try this all again, maybe I missed something on the first go around. I've been staying with Vegas 8 because of this exact issue, needing cineform (the lack of downrezzing to 720p capability in Neo is causing me not to buy it, and going up their product line from Neo isn't worth it for me, an amateur, considering the price, so Neo isn't really a viable solution for me).