Pixel aspect ratio causing terrrible distortions at DVinfo.net

Peter Jefferson · June 20th, 2004, 09:11 AM

Please see this file and have a look at the sporadic vertical lines..
I have marked the areas which are affected. The red surrounding is where this issue is prominant, Skin and lighter colours.

The yellow dots are locations of where (if zoomed in) you can see the lines and their effect. The camera settings are.

- Cine Gamma
- detail -2
- chroma phase-2
- master ped -2
- everything else zero
- skin detial - ON
- Matrix - cine

The tape head was cleaned, used for about 4 hours, then this was filmed after.

Gain was up to +12db due to the shadows and extreme low light.
Iris was set to auto due to constant overcast fluctuations.
White balance was also set to auto and i was filmin in interlacd mode. This is a PAL camera.

In good light, these phenomenon is not visible.
Other times it is.. Its' very sporadic, and in all instances, the cam was running in auto. I'm filming with the DVX, and capturing to Vegas and using an MX500 as the playback/capture deck.

Now, the yellow dots are start points of where u can easily see the stepping. Theres also darkker elemetns where stepping is NOT visible.. Now its not actual stepping, but a consistent vertical anomoly over the footage.

It does NOT happen with the MX500 footage

This still is taken from the Vegas timeline.

http://]http://www.austech.info/foru...&postid=634397

and heres the doozy..
The next attachment is a still taken from paused footage directly from tape (using the MX as a deck again)
(basically i paused the DVX footage and pressed the stilll button for the capture.)

http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634401

Now I don't know what it is?? I really don't think it's either of the the cams (56hrs total time for the DVX, about 100 for the MX)
But it seems to me that it's either vegas capture, a dirty head on the MX during capture, a dodgy firewire cable, bad encoding (which i doubt) or just the lossy of DV Avi...

Its really tragic because I have some really nice fotage marred only by this and when encoding to a VBR average 5k (1hr45min dvd) it is noticable

Any ideas if this anomaly would be the camera?? It's funny because the MX DOESN'T have this at all...
Should this be moved to Vegas Forum??

It's strange and its really disheartening as it's rarely noticable..

Here are a couple more pics..

Now one thing I noticed was that in jpg format these lines aren't as noticable, but even with that, I still can't find ANY anomaly on the raw material..

http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634406
http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634408

And interestingly enough, here's one I found raw..
This shows the anomoly slightly (zoomed on on PBZoom direct from cam) from the raw material..

The jpg I think is what is hiding this so well.. but on TV, it's impossible to notice due to the low res of a CRT TV..

http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634417

Oh and heres another perfect example of the anomaly gone...

http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634421

This ones raw as well..

Ryan Gohlinghorst · June 20th, 2004, 10:24 AM

I can't access your stills. It asks me to log in.

Peter Jefferson · June 20th, 2004, 11:01 AM

Here is an account:

Login - Studio-D
Pass - dddd

I will delete this login in 5 days..

OK, here's a strange thing. I've just taken a frame from footage and used Vegas 4 to rotate it..

http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634430

And here's the slightly tilted on.. notice the shoulder....and the slight clip..

http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634431

Now this here shows that the lines themselves are happening within Vegas... because when I rotate the pic, THE LINES ARE ALWAYS VERTICAL...

oooooh hang on.. I have the pixel aspect ratio of PAL DV.. 1.0926
I changed it to square.. 1.0000

PERFECT

ok, guys.. you can slap me know..

I still want to know why a standard pixel aspect ration would cause such a heavy defect..
ONLY ON THE DVX mind you... what does the DVX and the MX have a different aspect??

ARGH! This issue has been killing me all week! STUPID

One other thing, is that when I try to use a different encoder with the pixel aspect changed to 1.000 (from default) it won't render..
I use a variety of encorders, but the Vegas encoder I use is the stock standard one..

Tried Canopus, and a few other encoder plugins but they just dont want to render in this aspect.. other change the resolution to non compliant

What settings would be ideal for a clean Project, as well as a clean render?

God knows why the aspect ratio is causing these problems..

Peter Jefferson · June 21st, 2004, 11:35 AM

someones gotta know this....

i got the problem sorted by using square pixels.. but why is standard dv shot??

Rob Lohman · June 22nd, 2004, 03:32 AM

There must be something else wrong since MPEG2 uses pixel
aspects as well.

To what is your project set? (not export settings)

Peter Jefferson · June 22nd, 2004, 03:56 AM

i WAS running standard DV 0.926 (or something) standard DV pixel aspect. Res was 720x576, progressive...

the i switchd the aspect and its damn fine.. on top of that teh render took 16 hours as oppposed to the original 22..

Rob Lohman · June 22nd, 2004, 04:04 AM

Can you e-mail me just your project file Peter?

Peter Jefferson · June 22nd, 2004, 04:10 AM

ill do it when i get home mate :)

June 20th, 2004, 09:11 AM	#1
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Vertical lines Please see this file and have a look at the sporadic vertical lines.. I have marked the areas which are affected. The red surrounding is where this issue is prominant, Skin and lighter colours. The yellow dots are locations of where (if zoomed in) you can see the lines and their effect. The camera settings are. - Cine Gamma - detail -2 - chroma phase-2 - master ped -2 - everything else zero - skin detial - ON - Matrix - cine The tape head was cleaned, used for about 4 hours, then this was filmed after. Gain was up to +12db due to the shadows and extreme low light. Iris was set to auto due to constant overcast fluctuations. White balance was also set to auto and i was filmin in interlacd mode. This is a PAL camera. In good light, these phenomenon is not visible. Other times it is.. Its' very sporadic, and in all instances, the cam was running in auto. I'm filming with the DVX, and capturing to Vegas and using an MX500 as the playback/capture deck. Now, the yellow dots are start points of where u can easily see the stepping. Theres also darkker elemetns where stepping is NOT visible.. Now its not actual stepping, but a consistent vertical anomoly over the footage. It does NOT happen with the MX500 footage This still is taken from the Vegas timeline. http://]http://www.austech.info/foru...&postid=634397 and heres the doozy.. The next attachment is a still taken from paused footage directly from tape (using the MX as a deck again) (basically i paused the DVX footage and pressed the stilll button for the capture.) http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634401 Now I don't know what it is?? I really don't think it's either of the the cams (56hrs total time for the DVX, about 100 for the MX) But it seems to me that it's either vegas capture, a dirty head on the MX during capture, a dodgy firewire cable, bad encoding (which i doubt) or just the lossy of DV Avi... Its really tragic because I have some really nice fotage marred only by this and when encoding to a VBR average 5k (1hr45min dvd) it is noticable Any ideas if this anomaly would be the camera?? It's funny because the MX DOESN'T have this at all... Should this be moved to Vegas Forum?? It's strange and its really disheartening as it's rarely noticable.. Here are a couple more pics.. Now one thing I noticed was that in jpg format these lines aren't as noticable, but even with that, I still can't find ANY anomaly on the raw material.. http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634406 http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634408 And interestingly enough, here's one I found raw.. This shows the anomoly slightly (zoomed on on PBZoom direct from cam) from the raw material.. The jpg I think is what is hiding this so well.. but on TV, it's impossible to notice due to the low res of a CRT TV.. http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634417 Oh and heres another perfect example of the anomaly gone... http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634421 This ones raw as well..

June 20th, 2004, 10:24 AM	#2
Ryan Gohlinghorst Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Mankato, Minnesota Posts: 104	I can't access your stills. It asks me to log in. __________________ http://www.horsefilms.com "I like Mankato just a little bit better than any other town in the world." -Sinclair Lewis

June 22nd, 2004, 03:32 AM	#5
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	There must be something else wrong since MPEG2 uses pixel aspects as well. To what is your project set? (not export settings) __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 22nd, 2004, 04:04 AM	#7
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Can you e-mail me just your project file Peter? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 20th, 2004, 11:01 AM	#3
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Here is an account: Login - Studio-D Pass - dddd I will delete this login in 5 days.. OK, here's a strange thing. I've just taken a frame from footage and used Vegas 4 to rotate it.. http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634430 And here's the slightly tilted on.. notice the shoulder....and the slight clip.. http://www.austech.info/forums/attac...&postid=634431 Now this here shows that the lines themselves are happening within Vegas... because when I rotate the pic, THE LINES ARE ALWAYS VERTICAL... oooooh hang on.. I have the pixel aspect ratio of PAL DV.. 1.0926 I changed it to square.. 1.0000 PERFECT ok, guys.. you can slap me know.. I still want to know why a standard pixel aspect ration would cause such a heavy defect.. ONLY ON THE DVX mind you... what does the DVX and the MX have a different aspect?? ARGH! This issue has been killing me all week! STUPID One other thing, is that when I try to use a different encoder with the pixel aspect changed to 1.000 (from default) it won't render.. I use a variety of encorders, but the Vegas encoder I use is the stock standard one.. Tried Canopus, and a few other encoder plugins but they just dont want to render in this aspect.. other change the resolution to non compliant What settings would be ideal for a clean Project, as well as a clean render? God knows why the aspect ratio is causing these problems..

June 21st, 2004, 11:35 AM	#4
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	someones gotta know this.... i got the problem sorted by using square pixels.. but why is standard dv shot??

June 22nd, 2004, 03:56 AM	#6
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	i WAS running standard DV 0.926 (or something) standard DV pixel aspect. Res was 720x576, progressive... the i switchd the aspect and its damn fine.. on top of that teh render took 16 hours as oppposed to the original 22..

June 22nd, 2004, 04:10 AM	#8
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	ill do it when i get home mate :)