Vegas Video discussions from 2005 (Q1Q2)

Christopher Lefchik · February 2nd, 2005, 09:48 PM

Well, I was just testing some older WMV videos on another site I did, and they didn't stream. But I think I know why; those videos aren't referenced via a WVX file (a WVX file is a text file that references your video and lets Windows Media Player know that it should be streamed).

To learn more about how to make a WVX file see http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...server_topic4e. Scroll down a little more than halfway to the section "To create a Windows Media metafile."

By the way, there is a graph on that page comparing a Windows Media server to a normal HTTP server, and it says a normal server can't stream a WMV file, but like I said, it works fine for me.

Keith Paisley · February 2nd, 2005, 10:37 PM

Thanks.

I'll look into the wvx file. The only thing I know is that with the windows media encoder utility, using the New Session Wizard (pops up automatically when you launch it) you get to choose "how you want to distribute your content"

the choices are:
File download (computer playback)
Hardware devices (CD, DVD, portable)
Windows Media server (streaming)
Web server (progressive download)
Windows Media hardware profiles
Pocket PC
File archive

when you select the "Web server (progressive download)" option, all you have to do is drop the files on your webserver. Then when a user clicks a link, it automatically launches windows media player and starts playing the file as soon as it has downloaded a "stub" of it, and downloads the rest in the background, but you're able to view it as it downloads (assuming there is sufficient bandwidth for delivery). If you choose the first "File download" option, you get the same simple format that Vegas seems to spit out. Which means when you link to it on your website, and a user clicks that link, the browser will download the file in its entirety, and THEN it passes it to Windows Media Player. Not only does this make the end user wait that much longer to start viewing, but a lot of times the player can't play the file, for whatever reason. So then you have to right click the link, downloading it in its entirety again while saving it to disk locally, and then go find it and play it with the media player. I was hoping there would be a simple way to instruct Vegas to build the "progressive download" version instead.

But to avoid all the other headaches, the .wvx file may be less painful than reverting to the old multi-step process.

Rob Lohman · February 3rd, 2005, 04:13 AM

Sounds normal, especially glow is a very slow process. I assume
you want good quality? Good quality is expensive in terms of time.
That's just the way it is.

From what I understand you are rendering out to AVI format when
you have that problem? To what codec are you rendering (AVI is
not a codec!)?

Which version of Vegas are you running? Latest update? What
Operating System? Are you running any background software like
anti-virus etc.? It could be your PC is getting too hot (cooling is
in sufficient).

Rendering multiple sections is definitely possible.

Greg Jacobson · February 3rd, 2005, 06:36 AM

Is it better to render out 24p in Vegas before I color correct, add effects, etc instead of just converting to 24p during final render with all the other effects?

Rob Lohman · February 3rd, 2005, 06:44 AM

Better in what way? Vegas does the 24p pulldown on the fly if
you set it all up correctly. You can't output to 24p DV AVI either
since that will produce the exact same file as you already have
(30p with pulldown flag) so you would need to use another
format like uncompressed AVI. In the end I don't really see what
the point would be.

Greg Jacobson · February 3rd, 2005, 07:17 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Better in what way? Vegas does the 24p pulldown on the fly if
you set it all up correctly. You can't output to 24p DV AVI either
since that will produce the exact same file as you already have
(30p with pulldown flag) so you would need to use another
format like uncompressed AVI. In the end I don't really see what
the point would be. -->>>

The AVI I have made after converting to 24p certainly looks like 24p.

Jay Gladwell · February 3rd, 2005, 12:20 PM

Okay, I have a project (first one) that required 16:9 (shot on XL2). When I attempt to capture, I get dropped frames (never had that happen with 4:3).

When I saw dropped frames being counted, I stopped the capture. The following message appeared:

"Refer to the Video Capture online Help for tips on how to optimize performance." I did and it suggested:

"Defrag capture hard disk." I did.

"Do not run other programs." I wasn't.

"Turn off audio preview." I did.

"Completely turn off preview." I did...

... and I still got dropped frames.

The capture card is an (ADS) Texas Instruments OHCI compliant IEEE 1394 host controller. Windows XP Pro, Vegas 5.0, project set for "NTSC DV Widescreen (720x480, 29.970 fps), pixel aspect ratio 1.2121." What have I missed?

Oh, I'm capturing from a Sony DSR-30.

What can I do to correct the problem. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Jay

Jay Gladwell · February 3rd, 2005, 01:02 PM

It appears to be an issue with the DSR-30. When I tried a capture using the XL2, as suggested by Douglas Spotted Eagle, it worked just fine--no dropped frames.

Anyone else using the DSR-30 experiencing this same problem? If so, were you able to resolve it? If so, how'd you do it?

Thanks!

Jay

Edward Troxel · February 3rd, 2005, 01:05 PM

Was it dropping frames because of the capture program or because of Windows? For example, the other day I was capturing using Scenalyzer Live and about 30 minutes in the hard drive would suddenly come on SOLID and resulted in dropped frames (20 minutes the next time, 50 minutes the next time). I believe Windows was doing something during that time.

I have captured subsequently and not experienced that problem. One thing I DID do afterward was turn of the "indexing" on that drive.

Jay Gladwell · February 3rd, 2005, 01:38 PM

Good question, Edward. Truth is, I don't know. I was using Vegas and its capture program.

How is "indexing" turned off on a hard drive?

Jay

Edward Troxel · February 3rd, 2005, 03:12 PM

Open "My Computer", right-click the drive, choose Properties, at the bottom is a checkbox for:

Allow Indexing Service to index this disk for fast file searching

Also there is: Compress drive to save disk space.

I have BOTH unchecked now.

Jay Gladwell · February 3rd, 2005, 04:45 PM

Edward, I tried that and for a few seconds I thought it was going to work... but it didn't.

Thanks anyway.

Jay

Greg Jacobson · February 3rd, 2005, 05:03 PM

Ok, I found the tutorial by Douglas Spotted Eagle where he says to render clips to 24p before doing any effects, color, etc.

The result does look smoother. Vegas does a good job in my opinion.

Christopher Lefchik · February 3rd, 2005, 05:18 PM

I've done some testing, and here are the results.

Video exported directly from Vegas (in my case I used the Vegas 5 trial) can be streamed fine via http. There is a caveat, however. The video will start streaming okay if launched from Internet Explorer 6, but surfers like me who use an alternative browser will not get the video streamed if the wmv format is not included in the mime settings on the server.

Mime settings let a browser know how to handle file types. In the case of a wmv file the server would let the browser know that the video should be passed off to Windows Media player, thus avoiding downloading the file. Windows Media player would then take care of streaming the file itself.

A wvx file is not needed.

The mime settings for different web servers are at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de.../html/mime.asp.

If your web host allows you to configure an .htaccess file you can add the wmv extension yourself. Otherwise you will have to ask them to configure it for you.

Imran Zaidi · February 3rd, 2005, 05:35 PM

What he meant in the tutorial is for non 24p footage that is being converted to 24p in Vegas - he's recommending that you first render it to 24p, then worry about correcting, etc. For example, I have a DVX100A which already creates 24p footage, so no rendering would be necessary for me when working with 24p in Vegas.

February 3rd, 2005, 04:13 AM	#423
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Sounds normal, especially glow is a very slow process. I assume you want good quality? Good quality is expensive in terms of time. That's just the way it is. From what I understand you are rendering out to AVI format when you have that problem? To what codec are you rendering (AVI is not a codec!)? Which version of Vegas are you running? Latest update? What Operating System? Are you running any background software like anti-virus etc.? It could be your PC is getting too hot (cooling is in sufficient). Rendering multiple sections is definitely possible. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 3rd, 2005, 06:36 AM	#424
Greg Jacobson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York Posts: 141	Render to 24p before editing? Is it better to render out 24p in Vegas before I color correct, add effects, etc instead of just converting to 24p during final render with all the other effects?

February 3rd, 2005, 06:44 AM	#425
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Better in what way? Vegas does the 24p pulldown on the fly if you set it all up correctly. You can't output to 24p DV AVI either since that will produce the exact same file as you already have (30p with pulldown flag) so you would need to use another format like uncompressed AVI. In the end I don't really see what the point would be. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 3rd, 2005, 12:20 PM	#427
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Capturing 16:9 getting dropped frames--Need Help Okay, I have a project (first one) that required 16:9 (shot on XL2). When I attempt to capture, I get dropped frames (never had that happen with 4:3). When I saw dropped frames being counted, I stopped the capture. The following message appeared: "Refer to the Video Capture online Help for tips on how to optimize performance." I did and it suggested: "Defrag capture hard disk." I did. "Do not run other programs." I wasn't. "Turn off audio preview." I did. "Completely turn off preview." I did... ... and I still got dropped frames. The capture card is an (ADS) Texas Instruments OHCI compliant IEEE 1394 host controller. Windows XP Pro, Vegas 5.0, project set for "NTSC DV Widescreen (720x480, 29.970 fps), pixel aspect ratio 1.2121." What have I missed? Oh, I'm capturing from a Sony DSR-30. What can I do to correct the problem. Any help is greatly appreciated! Jay

February 3rd, 2005, 01:02 PM	#428
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	UPDATE It appears to be an issue with the DSR-30. When I tried a capture using the XL2, as suggested by Douglas Spotted Eagle, it worked just fine--no dropped frames. Anyone else using the DSR-30 experiencing this same problem? If so, were you able to resolve it? If so, how'd you do it? Thanks! Jay

February 2nd, 2005, 09:48 PM	#421
Christopher Lefchik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: US Posts: 1,152	Well, I was just testing some older WMV videos on another site I did, and they didn't stream. But I think I know why; those videos aren't referenced via a WVX file (a WVX file is a text file that references your video and lets Windows Media Player know that it should be streamed). To learn more about how to make a WVX file see http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...server_topic4e. Scroll down a little more than halfway to the section "To create a Windows Media metafile." By the way, there is a graph on that page comparing a Windows Media server to a normal HTTP server, and it says a normal server can't stream a WMV file, but like I said, it works fine for me.

February 2nd, 2005, 10:37 PM	#422
Keith Paisley Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 190	Thanks. I'll look into the wvx file. The only thing I know is that with the windows media encoder utility, using the New Session Wizard (pops up automatically when you launch it) you get to choose "how you want to distribute your content" the choices are: File download (computer playback) Hardware devices (CD, DVD, portable) Windows Media server (streaming) Web server (progressive download) Windows Media hardware profiles Pocket PC File archive when you select the "Web server (progressive download)" option, all you have to do is drop the files on your webserver. Then when a user clicks a link, it automatically launches windows media player and starts playing the file as soon as it has downloaded a "stub" of it, and downloads the rest in the background, but you're able to view it as it downloads (assuming there is sufficient bandwidth for delivery). If you choose the first "File download" option, you get the same simple format that Vegas seems to spit out. Which means when you link to it on your website, and a user clicks that link, the browser will download the file in its entirety, and THEN it passes it to Windows Media Player. Not only does this make the end user wait that much longer to start viewing, but a lot of times the player can't play the file, for whatever reason. So then you have to right click the link, downloading it in its entirety again while saving it to disk locally, and then go find it and play it with the media player. I was hoping there would be a simple way to instruct Vegas to build the "progressive download" version instead. But to avoid all the other headaches, the .wvx file may be less painful than reverting to the old multi-step process.

February 3rd, 2005, 07:17 AM	#426
Greg Jacobson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York Posts: 141	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Better in what way? Vegas does the 24p pulldown on the fly if you set it all up correctly. You can't output to 24p DV AVI either since that will produce the exact same file as you already have (30p with pulldown flag) so you would need to use another format like uncompressed AVI. In the end I don't really see what the point would be. -->>> The AVI I have made after converting to 24p certainly looks like 24p.

February 3rd, 2005, 01:05 PM	#429
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Was it dropping frames because of the capture program or because of Windows? For example, the other day I was capturing using Scenalyzer Live and about 30 minutes in the hard drive would suddenly come on SOLID and resulted in dropped frames (20 minutes the next time, 50 minutes the next time). I believe Windows was doing something during that time. I have captured subsequently and not experienced that problem. One thing I DID do afterward was turn of the "indexing" on that drive. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

February 3rd, 2005, 01:38 PM	#430
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Good question, Edward. Truth is, I don't know. I was using Vegas and its capture program. How is "indexing" turned off on a hard drive? Jay

February 3rd, 2005, 03:12 PM	#431
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Open "My Computer", right-click the drive, choose Properties, at the bottom is a checkbox for: Allow Indexing Service to index this disk for fast file searching Also there is: Compress drive to save disk space. I have BOTH unchecked now. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

February 3rd, 2005, 04:45 PM	#432
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Edward, I tried that and for a few seconds I thought it was going to work... but it didn't. Thanks anyway. Jay

February 3rd, 2005, 05:03 PM	#433
Greg Jacobson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York Posts: 141	Ok, I found the tutorial by Douglas Spotted Eagle where he says to render clips to 24p before doing any effects, color, etc. The result does look smoother. Vegas does a good job in my opinion.

February 3rd, 2005, 05:18 PM	#434
Christopher Lefchik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: US Posts: 1,152	I've done some testing, and here are the results. Video exported directly from Vegas (in my case I used the Vegas 5 trial) can be streamed fine via http. There is a caveat, however. The video will start streaming okay if launched from Internet Explorer 6, but surfers like me who use an alternative browser will not get the video streamed if the wmv format is not included in the mime settings on the server. Mime settings let a browser know how to handle file types. In the case of a wmv file the server would let the browser know that the video should be passed off to Windows Media player, thus avoiding downloading the file. Windows Media player would then take care of streaming the file itself. A wvx file is not needed. The mime settings for different web servers are at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de.../html/mime.asp. If your web host allows you to configure an .htaccess file you can add the wmv extension yourself. Otherwise you will have to ask them to configure it for you.

February 3rd, 2005, 05:35 PM	#435
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	What he meant in the tutorial is for non 24p footage that is being converted to 24p in Vegas - he's recommending that you first render it to 24p, then worry about correcting, etc. For example, I have a DVX100A which already creates 24p footage, so no rendering would be necessary for me when working with 24p in Vegas.