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Old February 20th, 2005, 02:44 AM   #646
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So you take all of your footage that you shot and without any editing what-so-ever, not even trimming it all up at all, you convert it all to 24p?

What do you do after that? I don't see how that would be better than just having everything at least edited together, without any effects or anything. So if you have a 10 minute movie......edit it together, then produce the 24p from 60i, how would that be much different?

Although the only problem I see is with the audio. Say you want to mix into 5.1. If you don't no biggie, but if you do, then you are forced into having the sound be on 1 track of audio unless you copy a bunch of dupes onto other tracks to set the pans and effects and such.

I sometimes use Cubase to handle ALL the audio since it's about 10x easier to mix with than Vegas as far as using effects and writing automation. It does require an extra step, but it certainly doesn't degrade any audio.....if not make it better.

All in all, why is rendering before editing better? Would using Adobe's Magic Bullet 1.5 better than Vegas's 24p? I have that.

This would require some fancy managing of files, that's for sure.
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Old February 20th, 2005, 04:39 AM   #647
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Thanks Glenn!
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Old February 20th, 2005, 05:32 AM   #648
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Anyone want to fly me up? <g> Seriously, have a great time guys!
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Old February 20th, 2005, 05:34 AM   #649
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The quality is NOT the same if you have done any effects or other
changes to the frames except a straight cut. Frame serving is done
in an uncompressed manner. DV is a 5:1 lossy compression that
tosses away information, so if it needs to re-encode (which it
needs to do for everything except straight cuts) you will loose
information.

Whether it is visible in the end result is a different matter,
personally I would just use the frameserver to get the best
quality I can. No need (for me) to cut corners there.
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Old February 20th, 2005, 06:34 AM   #650
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Well... that wasn't exactly the question I asked. I wanted a comparison between frameserving to Procoder 2-pass vs rendering straight from the timeline with the MainConcept 2-pass. Then what was the speed difference/quality difference between the two MPEG2 files?
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Old February 20th, 2005, 10:34 AM   #651
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Media Pool is missing??

I know this is something that I am doing but I can't seem to find "Media Pool". It does not come up in a window at the bottom of the screen where it usually is positioned.

I can open and close all the other windows but when I click to view "Media Pool" I see no changes on screen. However music from the timeline starts to play.

Has anyone had this happen to them? The worst thing is that I can open any of my projects and they seem to keep the format that I last used when editing. This means as I try various ways to bring back media pool each time I open a different project media pool remains missing.

Very frustrating.
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Old February 20th, 2005, 12:29 PM   #652
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You've just docked it somewhere and just needn to shuffle a few windows until you uncover it.

Also try Alt/5.

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Old February 20th, 2005, 01:06 PM   #653
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Thanks, Gary, but I suspect it is a bit more than that.

For one thing I went to View and unchecked every item. I would suspect that then when I clicked alt-5 Media Pool should appear it doesnt. However, music starts to play the way it does if you select an item in media pool. If hit enter it adds the sound clip.

Toggling with alt-5 shows no difference on the screen.
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Old February 20th, 2005, 01:13 PM   #654
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I had this happen once when I undocked a window and parked it in the lower right corner of the screen and then subsequently change my screen resolution to work with another program. Next time I launched Vegas I couldn't find my window (audio meter if I recall). Have you changed screen resolution lately?
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Old February 20th, 2005, 01:32 PM   #655
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Patrick,

I haven't made any changes but I went to the highest resolution to see if that was the problem. I am running two monitors and I have put media pool on one monitor just by iteslf in the past but not lately. I thought perhaps it was lost on another window.

In Premiere you can save you desktop setting. I think you can on here but I have not utilized that unless I did it when using Vegas Training Tapes. If there is a default setting somewhere it would work for me.
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Old February 20th, 2005, 01:33 PM   #656
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You need the Cineform plug-in, which also exports M2V files back to your camera/deck.
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Old February 20th, 2005, 01:49 PM   #657
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Charley, I would try two things:

First, Press ALT-D, release, and then press 1. This will hopefully bring everything back to normal. If it does not, exit Vegas, hold down CTRL-SHIFT, and start Vegas. This will reset EVERYTHING back to default (including any settings you have changed in Options - Preferences).
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Old February 20th, 2005, 01:56 PM   #658
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Now there are a couple commands I hope I never need again!

Thanks so much, Ed. the Alt-D,1 think did the trick. I will print out your reply in case it happens again in the future. I managed to miss a lot of editing today trying to chase down that problem.
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Old February 20th, 2005, 02:31 PM   #659
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I encoded an 8 second clip using various settings, and found at that the quality was more or less the same at the high bit rates I was interested in (around 6 Mbps.) The encoding times are:

Saving to the same hard disk:
Mainconcept
Good: 67s
Best: 68s
Procoder
High Speed: 28s
High Quality: 29s
Highest Quality: 42s
Mastering Quality: 42s

Saving to another hard disk:
Mainconcept
Good: 68s
Best: 69s
Procoder
High Speed: 28s
High Quality: 29s
Highest Quality: 35s


Using a one-pass VBR setting with an average bit rate of 6 Mbps I ended up with Mainconcept encodes of about 6.6 MB (~6.4 Mbps) and Procoder encodes of 5.2 MB (~5 Mbps).

Conclusion: MainConcept better approached the target bit rate, but took much longer.
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Old February 20th, 2005, 03:37 PM   #660
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I just frameserved the whole video to Procoder, which encoded it to another hard disk at High Quality in 52 minutes (vs. ~85 for the DV route.)
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