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Old December 20th, 2004, 02:10 AM   #1
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Why isn't Vegas more mainstream?

I was just reading a thread about AVID Xpress Pro and how it sucks on systems that aren't totally tricked out power and speed wise. I was said that with AVID, turnkey seems to be the way to go to get the software to run optimally.

Vegas 5 is so freakin' smooth, even on a less than than bleeding edge system, and it's workflow seems so "open" and "free flowing" compared to the other NLE's I've used (Premiere Pro 1, AVID 4.6, FCP). I use it on a pretty high end PC (for six months ago), but run Photoshop, go online, leave my antivirus stuff running, etc... at the same time as editing all without ANY slowdown.

With DVD Architect, Soundforge, and Acid as a supporting suite, what is preventing this program from becoming a bigger contender, if not THE top dog in PC editing? Is a port to MAC the only thing standing in the way of wider acceptance in professional media applications?

BTW - sorry if this has been asked a bunch of times, I didn't really find anything helpful when searching...
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Old December 20th, 2004, 02:44 AM   #2
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My guesses:
A- Past history / former user base. Vegas doesn't really have a good established user base like Premiere or Final Cut does. Those programs have kinda been around for a while.
B- Advertising. Sonic Foundry used to own Vegas and SF had financial difficulties.
C- People don't know how to use Vegas well. Vegas is really powerful at audio, but most people don't know how to use the plug-ins effectively.

2-
Quote:
I was just reading a thread about AVID Xpress Pro and how it sucks on systems that aren't totally tricked out power and speed wise. I was said that with AVID, turnkey seems to be the way to go to get the software to run optimally.
I don't think that's fair to say of Avid that it doesn't perform well on all but a tricked out system.

Vegas certainly has less configuration problems however.
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Old December 20th, 2004, 02:51 AM   #3
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Whether it's fair or not, going turnkey seemed to be the answer, given by others in the thread, to avoid configuration difficulties. It XPress runs alright on my system, but nowhere near how smooth Vegas runs.
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Old December 20th, 2004, 09:25 AM   #4
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Jesse,

This is not the forum to find out how to adjust your computer system for Avid. Avid is probably the least discussed NLE on this forum, with Vegas and Premiere being the most. If you go to the Avid forum, and ask questions, you are more likely to get the answers you need. Be advised, there are plenty of "professional" editors who frequent the forum, and can be rough on people who have not done a search first.

If you do a search here for problems concerning Vegas, you will, more often than not, read a reply like

"It's not Vegas, you must have a conflict with your hardware/os setup. Vegas runs great on my machine".

or

"Unfortunately, this sound like it's probably more related to hardware or drivers rather than Vegas."

or

"I'm pretty certain that the problem is not in Vegas (assuming you
are running the latest version of this). "

or

"There are 5 pages of 1394 card problems listed on the VASST Vegas FAQ,"

and

"Hard to say exactly what is going on except that it sounds like the machine is not keeping up with the necessary data flow."

All NLE's have their issues with different hardware configurations, and especially "Settings" within the system itself.

Good luck.
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Old December 20th, 2004, 01:06 PM   #5
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Richard, I really don't see what any of that has to do with the original point of my thread, or even my last post really. I have no intention of using this forum, and specifically this thread, to find out how to adjust my system to run AVID.

My original question was why Vegas isn't more of a mainstream, "professionally accepted" editing system.

My comments on it running smoothly were in reply to Glenn saying that it was unfair to label AVID as an editing system best suited for a bleeding-edge computer. I was pointing out that, in general, AVID uses up more system resources than Vegas, making it inherently more difficlut to work with.

I'm not so naive to assume that Vegas runs so smoothly for everybody else as it does for me, but it is safe to say that it uses less system resources than AVID. AVID requires a 2.4Ghz processor and 1GB of RAM. Vegas requires a 500Mhz processor and 128MB of RAM. I mean, C'mon, the numbers (even if deflated) prove that it will be a lot easier on your system.

It seems to me that "standards" in the entertainment industry come down to money more often than not, and that one could get a better bang for the buck with a $2,000 Vegas system than a some of the ridiculously over-priced AVID systems. I think this cost to reward ratio is why FCP has made inroads into the industry so quickly.

Glenn, had a good answer about Vegas not having a strong user base from previous versions, due to the fact that it is newer than some other NLE's, and also that Sonic Foundry was unable to promote it well. Although Apple has promoted the crap out of FCP, it is also a newer program, but people seem to accept it much more quickly.

So the question remains why hasn't Vegas? Could it be that it is not available for MAC, which a lot of people still foolishly believe is the only viable multimedia computer system? Anybody else have any other reasons?
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Old December 20th, 2004, 01:42 PM   #6
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Glen wrote:

"I don't think that's fair to say of Avid that it doesn't perform well on all but a tricked out system.

Vegas certainly has less configuration problems however."

To which you replied :

"Whether it's fair or not, going turnkey seemed to be the answer, given by others in the thread, to avoid configuration difficulties. It XPress runs alright on my system, but nowhere near how smooth Vegas runs."


TO which I responded by posting illustrations of other people having difficulties with their hardware/software configurations pointing out that AVID is not alone in this. I thought both mine and Glenn's responses were in answer to your generalization.

But lets move on. -

As to why Vegas isn't more main stream, it's partly marketing and partly market share. AVID already has more than ninety percent of the professional market share, with studios and foundations having sunk many dollars into their systems. Hard to turn that battleship around. FCP did it by aiming at the "lower" Prosumer/Indy market, to which Avid responded with PRO and so-on. Premiere has the biggest market share of "consumer" NLE's because it was originally bundled with computers and hardware cards. Vegas and Sony are starting to do this now, but it's got an uphill climb. For those graphic artists more comfortable with MACs, Only FCP and Avid are really viable, and AVID ships with both versions. Vegas has no MAC presence.So those are some thoughts on marketing...
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Old December 20th, 2004, 01:47 PM   #7
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Jesse,
Building on Glenn's observation, Avid has maintained a large international sales force dedicated to selling Avid "solutions" directly into the broadcast and film industries for many years. They also have quite an array of those "solutions", the bottom rung of which is their Express products. So it's natural that Avid would hold such an established position and that a product with such a fanciful name as "Vegas" would be considered a hobbyist's toy.

As a related note, Sony is attempting to sell a high-end editing "solution" known as "Xpri" but with limited success against the established Avid footprint.

Of course at the end of a project it really makes no difference what tool you used to edit your work. All that counts is the final product.
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Old December 21st, 2004, 01:45 AM   #8
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Ken,

Your points are right on. However, the turning point has arrived.

For example, I regularly attend NAB and DV EXPO West. I'll start with my observations at this latest DV Expo in Los Angeles a few weeks ago.

When you walked onto the Show Floor - it became very clear that Sony was the Big Player. There were several Sony Pavillions loaded with DVcam, HDCams and HDV Camcorders. And, there was a 30 Seat - Vegas/DVDA Classroom - Loaded with Laptops for every seat. Three Divisions of Sony took part in the EXPO.

In years Past - Vegas Was Absent from the Expo. And, Matrox, Canopus, Pinnacle and Avis Express Booths - all usually had High Quality Presentations to take part in. Now, They were all almost non existant - Except for Vegas!

This squarely told me that Sony is fully supporting the Main Stream Integration of Vegas by Showing it the way that others in years past - have done. And Now, It is being marketed to the Pro's!

The same was true of NAB 2004 - Last April. Sony Offered Full Vegas/DVDA Classrooms and Live Show Floor Presentations.

And, Most Importantly - At My Suggestion, Insistance and Efforts - Sony Threw a Great Party for Vegas Users at the Paris Hotel.

And, because that was such a great success - it will happen again, in April '05. Why? Because the Growing and Loyal Vegas User's Base - Deserves it! And, Sony does recognize it.

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Old December 21st, 2004, 02:04 AM   #9
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Yeah there was a nice Vegas setup at DV EXPO East too, and it was packed, as was Premiere's. Don't remember much going o with Avid, but that doesn't mean it wasn't.

Vegas is definitely my favorite NLE and I would love to be able to list it as a viable skillset for professional editor hiring opportunties.
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Old December 21st, 2004, 10:22 AM   #10
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Can you cut a film on Vegas? I mean, does it have film conforming software?
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Old December 21st, 2004, 11:25 AM   #11
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This is a pretty extensive thread on the topic.
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Old December 21st, 2004, 11:37 AM   #12
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<<<-- Originally posted by Richard Alvarez : Can you cut a film on Vegas? I mean, does it have film conforming software? -->>>

To my knowledge, no. Vegas' current market seems to be video editing which, if correct, is another reason why it is not yet a candidate for deep professional industry acceptance.
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Old December 21st, 2004, 12:00 PM   #13
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I had forgotten most of this is covered in the thread that Nick referenced above.

For what it's worth, I was watching all the "behind the scenes" frootage and documentaries on "Return of the King" yesterday, and in the section on editing, I noticed that they brought in an Avid experienced editor to actually be the "Fingers" for the editor, since he didn't know how to cut on an Avid. Just goes to show, the real craft is in the mind, not the fingers or the software.

BTW, wathcing the documentary footage for all that was more fun than the actual movie for me! Makes me want to move to New Zealand!
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Old December 21st, 2004, 07:57 PM   #14
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<<<-- Originally posted by Jesse Bekas : I'm not so naive to assume that Vegas runs so smoothly for everybody else as it does for me, but it is safe to say that it uses less system resources than AVID. AVID requires a 2.4Ghz processor and 1GB of RAM. Vegas requires a 500Mhz processor and 128MB of RAM. I mean, C'mon, the numbers (even if deflated) prove that it will be a lot easier on your system.-->>>

the inference here is that the vegas code base is far more efficient than the avid code base... so is the avid software bloatware, or does it have capabilities beyond vegas, that require more computing power?

i haven't worked with avid xpress enuf to know, but i sure wouldn't want to run vegas on it's minimum requirement computer... think what the rendering times would be like!! any significant 3d stuff in vegas, on a 500mhz cpu, would be a real p.i.a.... it seems to me those minimum requirements for vegas are marketing b.s. that's designed to sell software.

in terms of stability, vegas has been a rock-solid app in my limited experience; it hasn't crashed yet... but there are a lot of issues, in terms of media management and general workflow, that need to be addressed before it'll feel like an app that'll handle big projects... those pro-level options require a lot more code and horsepower to run well.
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Old December 22nd, 2004, 05:44 AM   #15
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Keep in mind that minimum system specs are just that. Dan: you
say you don't want to render on a 500 MHz proc, that is fine, but
it will still work! If you are just doing straight cuts with perhaps
some fades and crossfades it should still render fast even on such
a system.

Ofcourse such a system will not be usuable at all if you want to
do color correction or (3d) effects, but that has nothing to do with
the minimum specs.
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