Rendering quality.

[William LiPera]

Eugene, I too love TMPGEnc . My question is which is best to burn afterwards : ISO file or DVD folder. What is the difference. Thanks, Bill

[Eugene Kosarovich]

Originally Posted by William LiPera

Eugene, I too love TMPGEnc . My question is which is best to burn afterwards : ISO file or DVD folder. What is the difference. Thanks, Bill

An ISO file is a virtual image of your DVD, while the DVD Folder is a folder with the Audio_TS and Video_TS folders in it. Either way should work fine for later burning.

Myself, I go with the ISO file, since it is just one file to keep track of instead of a directory, and it is prepared by my authoring program. I tend to trust having the program that authored the DVD decide on the exact layout of the DVD versus having my burning program create its own DVD layout just from the DVD folder of files.

Also, with the right software, you can mount an ISO file as a virtual DVD on your computer.

[Ben Longden]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kellam

Ben:

There is not enough information provided about your source material and Vegas settings to provide you any reccomendations.
.

Hi Jeff,
Check the screenshots listed above. If the links dont work, PM me and I can send them to you.
Ben

[Ben Longden]

Answering your questions, Seth;

Seth; Regarding the settings you've posted - what's the total length of all video segments you're putting on a DVD?
Ben: Most are sport and general shot for the local News. Average length is 25 minutes vision shot per game. Non TV gigs are 60 mins per DVD max.

Seth; Regarding the Vegas MPEG2 render settings -
* Did you start with "Mainconcept MPEG2 | DVD Architect PAL Widescreen Video Stream" template, (which you then modified)?
Ben: No. MPEG2, with "include video stream' box ticked.
When I first started using DVDA, I was told to render vision separate from audio, but I always stuffed it up, getting one without the other. I abstracted that an MPEG2 file should carry both and went from there. The only change to the recipe Ive been using (as in the screenshot) was to go from an 8Mbps CBR to the current two pass 8,7 and 6Mbps VBR.
But now you mention it, I will have a look see at the template you mentioned.

Seth; What kind of content are you working with - is it high-motion subjects (sports)? Static subjects? Shot handheld? Shot on a tripod? Well lit? Underlit? Is there video noise from camera gain?
Ben; High motion sports shot on a tripod, well lit. Others that have improved include news vision of burning houses, lit with available light from the fire trucks, no gain, and on a tripod. If I do switch gain on +18db with DPR (dual Pixel readout) on, the noise increase is marginal. If its at 36db or 42db, then the gain noise is like a snowstorm.

Seth; In your first post, you referred to "vision quality" differences. Can you be any more specific about what you're seeing? Common playback errors include pixellation aka. macroblocking, banding, frame drops aka. freezes, mosquito noise (noise outside an object), video noise (in darker areas).
Ben; The biggest change I have noted is the ring around objects is less apparent in the AVI to DVDA render, as is the blocking around text on titles supered over moving vision. Mosquito noise is also lower.

Ben

[Seth Bloombaum]

I abstracted that an MPEG2 file should carry both (audio and video) and went from there.

This may account for the quality differences - i've not closely examined this, but, presumably your 8Mbps peak VBR rate includes video and audio in Vegas, but is only limiting video in DVDA.

This may be important, because when you do an MPEG2 render with audio in Vegas, it includes PCM audio, which is uncompressed wav at 16/48, umm, what is that bitrate? Around 1.2Mbps if I remember. If true, that means you're comparing apx. 6.8Mbps Vegas MPEG2 to 8Mbps DVDA MPEG2. Which would ordinarily be extremely hard to differentiate, but, you're doing high-motion sports content, which is going to stress any encode.

Most people say, right or wrong, AC3 audio at, umm, 228Kbps (default, stereo) is good enough, and gives more disk space than PCM for video when rendering 1hr.+ programs.

Which is why you'll see continual reference to rendering video and audio separately - it's the only way to get AC3 aka. Dolby Digital out of Vegas. There are scripts that can run both renders automatically...

The biggest (vision quality) change (Vegas vs. DVDA renders) I have noted is the ring around objects is less apparent in the AVI to DVDA render, as is the blocking around text on titles supered over moving vision. Mosquito noise is also lower.

The "ring around objects". If this is white on dark objects, and black around light objects, you could be seeing the results of the camera detail level reflected as compression errors. I don't shoot with much detail, or at least haven't since the time I was working in TV news and sports (!) where high detail settings are routinely used. In those ancient tymes, detail was adjusted under the side plate of the camera, by an engineer with a tweaker, so us cam ops didn't have much choice about it.

Of course high detail, (and I mean a high level setting of a cam's detail processing, not small things the camera sees in the scene), is characteristic of much of TV news/sports. It does good things like outlining a golf ball or a hockey puck, players seem more distinct against backgrounds.

All this is a long way of saying that since my work started in video compression, I've not had to deal with much in the way of cam detail. Mostly a function of the markets I work in, where everybody wants their footage to resemble film, not tv.

But I'd certainly try a camera detail level setting of 50 or 60% of what you have now, and see if that too affects the look of your dvds.