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What Happens in Vegas...
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Old March 1st, 2005, 10:35 PM   #1
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Preview window not representative of actual render

Hi all,


So just to check out an event with several fx dropped into it , I render it , I have my preview window set to best so it should be approximately the same.

In my event I only used quick blur , contrast to 11 and a tiny bit of color adjustment. After rendering it and viewing it in 3 different player the image comes out WAY darker than the one in the preview window.


I wish i could send screenshot but here is the thing. If I , say ,put my rendered file in BS player and take a screenshot this screenshot will look exactly like what I see in the preview window ??? instead of the really darker version of the actual rendered file.

I don't have any special color or brightness adjustment in any of my players so that's not it.

On second thought here is the file and the screenshot.

oops have to reboot , will post them in just a minute

thanks

Phil
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Old March 1st, 2005, 10:42 PM   #2
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Ok so here is the screenshot , which is set to best in Vegas :

http://fapomatic.com/8/image0.jpg

the video , best quality , uncompressed :

http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?
id=30QZS382UPMZD0TXCZEFQVD3Q2



It looks like I put the contrast in the 20's if one would trust the video but it is really not the case , ranges from 9 to 11 across the entire project.

Thanks for your input.
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Old March 2nd, 2005, 05:21 AM   #3
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dude, the gamma set within a CRT PC monitor is TOTALLY different to a reference monitor..

the best way to get colour accuracy is with a firewire cable and a digital to analogue converter (camera)

I find vegas to be one of the few programs which dont degrade footage once filtered... so i cant explain what your probem may be..
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Old March 2nd, 2005, 08:44 AM   #4
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If you are doing color corrections, you MUST use an external monitor. The computer monitor is NOT the same. Try hooking your computer up to an external monitor and turn on External Preview. I'm sure you could see the difference then. Peter is right, send the preview via firewire out to check the "real" image.
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Old March 2nd, 2005, 11:44 AM   #5
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hi guys ,

I agree 100% with you guys but the thing is that I tried removing all filters and render the event "plain" and the issue still occur. It is still as though the rendering process pumps the contrast into the 20's

On my previous project I did some massive color correction and everything was A-OK.


...

Now if I try to reverse the contrast effect on my event and put it to -11 the rendered result kinda look like what I see in the preview window ?????


Thanks for your input

Phil


ps: I just loaded my last project took a random event and render it , the result comes out exactly the same as the one in the preview window. This event is has the one described above , has massive color correction , channel blend , quick blur etc...

Looks more and more like my new project have some kind of global setting that effects every event. Can't see what it could be though.

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Old March 2nd, 2005, 12:10 PM   #6
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Remember that effects can be added in multiple places including:

1) event on the timeline
2) an entire track
3) The entire PROJECT (by dropping it on the preview screen)
4) the media in the Media Pool
5) Bus tracks


If you would like, post your VEG file somewhere and we can take a look to see if you've missed something.
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Old March 2nd, 2005, 12:23 PM   #7
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Hi Edward

here you go:

http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0X...G27MEX6DG1DZKW

Still fooling around and I really have to drop the contrast to -11 to make the rendered file look like it was set to 11

???

Thanks
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Old March 2nd, 2005, 01:19 PM   #8
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Ok so here is the most comprehensive way to put it.

I rendered 3 files , one at -12 contrast , the other +12 and the last +25

I took screenshot of the preview window for each value and posted them as well so you can easily compare what I see in vegas versus the final result. I should've done that right from the start of my post but here it is anyway.

First file at -12

pic : http://fapomatic.com/8/minus_12_1.jpg

video : http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1AICQR3C7GFLD2TB1GWNARS1ZC


Second file at +12

pic: http://fapomatic.com/8/plus12.jpg

video: http://s20.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=10W7237JLTJE73AAGGVW51LD0A



third file at +25

pic: http://fapomatic.com/8/plus25.jpg

video: http://s20.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=37D761A6QUIXM38JQWOTLSI4LX



Now if one of you want to check the screenshot for +12 and play the -12 file at the same time you will clearly see that they are somewhat the same.

Just to cover my a** I will save my veg file and start reversing all contrast, this is going to be long and tedious but hey if that's what it takes.

If any of you watch all those files and they all look the same respectively than my computer is going haywire I guess. I did the exact same tests with another project and everything turn out fine,. If I lowered the contrast the rendered file would look exactly the same as the preview window so I am pretty sure my computer is fine

Anyway thanks a million for the time you will take

Sincerely

Phil
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Old March 2nd, 2005, 01:52 PM   #9
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Here's what I see:

Media level - no added effects
Project level - no added effects
Track level - Broadcast filter effect
Event level - all have Quick Blur and Brightness and Contrast. Many also have Color Corrector.
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Old March 2nd, 2005, 02:13 PM   #10
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Hi Ed,


yes that's right. but if I remove all effects it will still render darker than it is actually. I've tried more test with other projects and now ALL of them render darker/more contrast.

Man , I am totally lost.

Gotta get to work, will try to reinstall Vegas when I come back.

Did you see all the screens that I posted

Thanks for your time

Phil
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Old March 3rd, 2005, 12:12 AM   #11
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Ok guys ,


I've just reinstalled Vegas and it still does the same thing

Rendering the event darker than it actually is , even when no fx are applied.

Any idea on what to do next

Thanks

HUGE PS:

if I drop the rendered file on the timeline next to the original one it doesn't look darker anymore ,in fact it looks exactly the same.

???

could it be possible that 3 different media player could be unbalanced....

Please take a look at either one of my posted screenshot/file , if you see no difference between the file "+12" and the video +12 than my computer is wrong then

thanks for trying

Phil
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Old March 3rd, 2005, 08:12 PM   #12
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Ok latest update


I looked at the historigram with both the rendered file and the original one in Vegas side by side. The historigram is pretty much the same for both .

Now if I render to dv/avi and throw that in let's says Vdub and compress it with divx the result file has the same contrast as the original one in vegas.

So I guess all my media player are screwed HIHIHI

Thanks a lot for your input guys , top notch for Ed

See ya

Phil
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Old March 9th, 2005, 02:45 AM   #13
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Hello !

There is a definate difference using Microsoft DV Codec or Vegas DV Codec. If you visualise something saved with Vegas using Vegas DV codec (default setting), other software using Microsoft DV codec ( like Windows Media Player) will show it with different brightness (darker in this case).

Just letting you know.

Frank
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Old March 9th, 2005, 02:56 AM   #14
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To elaborate on this problem.

Vegas DV codec saved avi's look darker in Windows mediaplayer that used Microsoft DV codec to view them.

If you want to see the footage correctly, save it in another codec that both Vegas and Windows mediaplayer use. Like wmv for example.

You can also force Vegas to not use it's own DV codec but to use Microsoft DV codec. But I think the quality is slightly less good. Not much though. What you can't forget though, is if you decide with eighter codec, you have to stick with it in Vegas or you will see different brightness results between both.

To change the DV codec in Vegas, go to Options/Preferences. In the General tab you have to check "Use Microsoft DV Codec". You have to restart Vegas for that setting to go in effect.

Good luck !

Frank
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Old March 9th, 2005, 04:31 PM   #15
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I've found WMP to seriously mess with your footage's colours compared to the original AVI and quicktime/sorenson encoded clips.

2- Te Microsoft DV codec may be doing a luminance/brightness change to your footage compared to the Vegas DV codec. I'm not too sure about this, but you could check the manual. The Microsoft codec also gives slightly more compression artifacts as far as I know.
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