Vegas Video discussions from 2006 (Q3Q4)

Mark Bryant · September 19th, 2006, 07:59 AM

Yes - or if you are using DVDA, use "DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream".

Jay Hancock · September 19th, 2006, 09:11 AM

Matthew hit the issue in the head (great discussion!). A few more details about it (and comparison of 32-bit vs. 64-bit)...

The 32-bit application has a 2GB address space to make use of, which can be shared and swapped between physical RAM and virtual memory on the hard drive swapfile. Some apps, if developed with particular compiler options, can use a bit more than this. Photoshop CS2 is one example. Vegas 6 is not.

Since Vegas is a 32-bit app, can it actually run faster on 64-bit XP? The answer is YES. And it boils down to more efficient memory management. As I said, the 32-bit app gets 2GB of address space. Unfortunately, the 32-bit OS takes some of this address space away from the application for its own use. Mostly this happens with shared dll code that both the OS and the application use. And some other stuff. In contrast, XP x64 differs in that it does NOT encroach on the application's address space.

Most applications don't even come close to using 2GB of address space and don't care. But a really demanding project render can go to that level in Vegas. Anyone who's had a render fail with an "out of memory" error has seen it happen. Vegas ran out of address space, even though you had loads of HD for swapfile and perhaps RAM available too.

This is why in XP x64 you can sometimes see a demanding render succeed where in 32-bit XP it would have failed. Because more of the full 2GB address space is available to Vegas, and the render needed it.

Also you can see speed increases on those highly demanding renders. With more of the full 2GB address space available for Vegas to use, it can rely more on RAM and less on the slower, HD-base virtual (swapfile) addresses.

I've done enough testing to bear this out. But back to the original question, no I don't think you'll benefit too much from having 4GB of RAM, since Vegas can't use it. But if you run multiple apps at the same time (like PhotoShop & Vegas, or multiple instances of Vegas), then you might see some benefit. But personally I think you'll get a lot more "bang for the buck" by getting HD Connect from Cineform.

John Poore · September 19th, 2006, 10:05 AM

Funny thing. I downconverted some jpgs from HDV, into dvcpro 50, Sony YUV and plain old DV.

The DV appeared much sharper than either DV50 or YUV. Now why is this? It's almost like the arguments as to why the HVX 2000 looks less sharp than HDV cameras.

Maybe it has to do with ones perception, and the DV frames only appear sharper in JPG because they have less colour info and are somewhat more blocky.

Both the Panasonic and Sony YUV codecs were equally less sharp than the DV frames.

Very strange.

Ken Diewert · September 19th, 2006, 11:24 AM

Thanks Guys,

I will read the newsletters but last night I did take the 10gb .avi into DVDA and it did produce a masterful DVD. It did take over 2 1/2 hours to render it, but no biggy. I left it alone to do it's wonderful thing.

I had mistakenly thought that I was smarter than DVDA and it would need me to feed it a correct size file before rendering. I should have known better. Now that I am enlightened (me=dumb / Vegas=smart), I can go back to doing what I like to do.

I love Vegas.

Matthew Chaboud · September 19th, 2006, 08:45 PM

I've posted some files comparing a couple of techniques for emulating Technicolor 2-strip and 3-strip processes in Vegas.

They're not super-polished (I just threw them together), but there was some interest in whether or not this was possible in Vegas. It certainly is. I'll put the projects up shortly, but the videos comparing these are already there.

http://matthew.chaboud.com/vegas5/

For 3-strip, a simple channel blend is all it really takes to do this. You can use levels to linearize the color-space for a slightly more punchy effect. If anyone uses edge detection or spatial filters to do a technicolor look, they're doing it wrong. Technicolor is purely a color process.

2-strip is a bit harder in Vegas, as it requires isolation of blue-green and red masks, but I think that I might be able to bake it down in to a couple of tracks with filters. For this mock-up, I used six.

David Delaney · September 19th, 2006, 09:50 PM

I recently completed editing a video for a client - all talking heads. When I filmed it, I had to increase the volume/gain on the camera to compensate for the individual talking heads depending on their voice level.
Well, now in post - when I turn the TV up, I can tell the amount of white noise in the background is completely different. So my question is probably complex and simple at the same time - is there a good way to make all the audio levels the same? I am trying to look at the waveform and use it as a guide to match up with the other ones using the gain control. Unfortunately I learned a lesson too late that more volume is better than less volume. A few of the talking heads are great, there is little or no white noise behind them because they talked loud, but others who talked soft, I turned up the volume in the camera and now when it is turned up louder, there is white noise.
Any experience in this matter? Any advice? Thanks

Emre Safak · September 19th, 2006, 10:34 PM

I would be inclined to use noise reduction.

Bill Mecca · September 20th, 2006, 08:17 AM

did you use the on-board mic? external mics, lavs clipped on will save you from this hassle.

capture some of the white noise in each clip and apply noise reduction. Its something you will have to do by trial and error as the amount of noise reduction you apply can have a negative effect on the voice (depending upon the frequency of the noise and those in the individual voice)

James Connors · September 20th, 2006, 09:39 AM

Unfortunately I'm not at my house right now so I can't test (and I'm totally incompetant with flash anyway) but I was thinking of finding someone to do some MTV-style bumpers for my music vids to label them with, and wondering if they will import correctly (with transparency layer) into my Vegas workfiles?

Cheers!

Michael Wisniewski · September 20th, 2006, 09:52 AM

Yes you can drop the .swf file onto the Vegas timeline. ActionScript, motion video, and audio are not supported. And you need to use Flash 5 files, the Vegas reader plug-in can't read Flash 6 files or higher.

James Connors · September 20th, 2006, 10:08 AM

Cheers for that! Any idea if v7 of Vegas has changed anything with regards to those "cants" ? I'm hoping Flash MX will have the ability to save as a legacy version as I can't see many people I know still having an older version. Thanks for the positive news tho :)

Emre Safak · September 20th, 2006, 10:15 AM

The scoop on Flash

James Connors · September 20th, 2006, 10:27 AM

Ah excellent, hopefully everything I'll need to do will work then... fingers crossed!

Michael Best · September 20th, 2006, 05:15 PM

Hi there - While slowing down some motion with velocity the render looks terrible, is there a way to get a fairly smooth slo-mo post camera?

Pierre Petit · September 20th, 2006, 06:37 PM

After reading a lot i think i understand the workflow of using raylight with vegas. But what about when your finished editing? Can you render again to dvcprohd?

September 19th, 2006, 11:24 AM	#799
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Thanks Guys, I will read the newsletters but last night I did take the 10gb .avi into DVDA and it did produce a masterful DVD. It did take over 2 1/2 hours to render it, but no biggy. I left it alone to do it's wonderful thing. I had mistakenly thought that I was smarter than DVDA and it would need me to feed it a correct size file before rendering. I should have known better. Now that I am enlightened (me=dumb / Vegas=smart), I can go back to doing what I like to do. I love Vegas. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

September 19th, 2006, 08:45 PM	#800
Matthew Chaboud Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 93	A few people were interested in the "Technicolor" look in Vegas. I've posted some files comparing a couple of techniques for emulating Technicolor 2-strip and 3-strip processes in Vegas. They're not super-polished (I just threw them together), but there was some interest in whether or not this was possible in Vegas. It certainly is. I'll put the projects up shortly, but the videos comparing these are already there. http://matthew.chaboud.com/vegas5/ For 3-strip, a simple channel blend is all it really takes to do this. You can use levels to linearize the color-space for a slightly more punchy effect. If anyone uses edge detection or spatial filters to do a technicolor look, they're doing it wrong. Technicolor is purely a color process. 2-strip is a bit harder in Vegas, as it requires isolation of blue-green and red masks, but I think that I might be able to bake it down in to a couple of tracks with filters. For this mock-up, I used six.

September 19th, 2006, 09:50 PM	#801
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Trying to repair some audio - make it the same? I recently completed editing a video for a client - all talking heads. When I filmed it, I had to increase the volume/gain on the camera to compensate for the individual talking heads depending on their voice level. Well, now in post - when I turn the TV up, I can tell the amount of white noise in the background is completely different. So my question is probably complex and simple at the same time - is there a good way to make all the audio levels the same? I am trying to look at the waveform and use it as a guide to match up with the other ones using the gain control. Unfortunately I learned a lesson too late that more volume is better than less volume. A few of the talking heads are great, there is little or no white noise behind them because they talked loud, but others who talked soft, I turned up the volume in the camera and now when it is turned up louder, there is white noise. Any experience in this matter? Any advice? Thanks

September 20th, 2006, 08:17 AM	#803
Bill Mecca Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 475	did you use the on-board mic? external mics, lavs clipped on will save you from this hassle. capture some of the white noise in each clip and apply noise reduction. Its something you will have to do by trial and error as the amount of noise reduction you apply can have a negative effect on the voice (depending upon the frequency of the noise and those in the individual voice) __________________ Award-winning Pine Barrens Documentary! Video, Audio, Music & More

September 20th, 2006, 09:39 AM	#804
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	Do Flash files work inside Vegas? Unfortunately I'm not at my house right now so I can't test (and I'm totally incompetant with flash anyway) but I was thinking of finding someone to do some MTV-style bumpers for my music vids to label them with, and wondering if they will import correctly (with transparency layer) into my Vegas workfiles? Cheers!

September 19th, 2006, 07:59 AM	#796
Mark Bryant Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bath, England Posts: 119	Yes - or if you are using DVDA, use "DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream".

September 19th, 2006, 09:11 AM	#797
Jay Hancock Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 40	Matthew hit the issue in the head (great discussion!). A few more details about it (and comparison of 32-bit vs. 64-bit)... The 32-bit application has a 2GB address space to make use of, which can be shared and swapped between physical RAM and virtual memory on the hard drive swapfile. Some apps, if developed with particular compiler options, can use a bit more than this. Photoshop CS2 is one example. Vegas 6 is not. Since Vegas is a 32-bit app, can it actually run faster on 64-bit XP? The answer is YES. And it boils down to more efficient memory management. As I said, the 32-bit app gets 2GB of address space. Unfortunately, the 32-bit OS takes some of this address space away from the application for its own use. Mostly this happens with shared dll code that both the OS and the application use. And some other stuff. In contrast, XP x64 differs in that it does NOT encroach on the application's address space. Most applications don't even come close to using 2GB of address space and don't care. But a really demanding project render can go to that level in Vegas. Anyone who's had a render fail with an "out of memory" error has seen it happen. Vegas ran out of address space, even though you had loads of HD for swapfile and perhaps RAM available too. This is why in XP x64 you can sometimes see a demanding render succeed where in 32-bit XP it would have failed. Because more of the full 2GB address space is available to Vegas, and the render needed it. Also you can see speed increases on those highly demanding renders. With more of the full 2GB address space available for Vegas to use, it can rely more on RAM and less on the slower, HD-base virtual (swapfile) addresses. I've done enough testing to bear this out. But back to the original question, no I don't think you'll benefit too much from having 4GB of RAM, since Vegas can't use it. But if you run multiple apps at the same time (like PhotoShop & Vegas, or multiple instances of Vegas), then you might see some benefit. But personally I think you'll get a lot more "bang for the buck" by getting HD Connect from Cineform.

September 19th, 2006, 10:05 AM	#798
John Poore Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Johannesburg Posts: 107	Funny thing. I downconverted some jpgs from HDV, into dvcpro 50, Sony YUV and plain old DV. The DV appeared much sharper than either DV50 or YUV. Now why is this? It's almost like the arguments as to why the HVX 2000 looks less sharp than HDV cameras. Maybe it has to do with ones perception, and the DV frames only appear sharper in JPG because they have less colour info and are somewhat more blocky. Both the Panasonic and Sony YUV codecs were equally less sharp than the DV frames. Very strange.

September 19th, 2006, 10:34 PM	#802
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	I would be inclined to use noise reduction.

September 20th, 2006, 09:52 AM	#805
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Yes you can drop the .swf file onto the Vegas timeline. ActionScript, motion video, and audio are not supported. And you need to use Flash 5 files, the Vegas reader plug-in can't read Flash 6 files or higher. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

September 20th, 2006, 10:08 AM	#806
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	Cheers for that! Any idea if v7 of Vegas has changed anything with regards to those "cants" ? I'm hoping Flash MX will have the ability to save as a legacy version as I can't see many people I know still having an older version. Thanks for the positive news tho :)

September 20th, 2006, 10:15 AM	#807
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	The scoop on Flash

September 20th, 2006, 10:27 AM	#808
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	Ah excellent, hopefully everything I'll need to do will work then... fingers crossed!

September 20th, 2006, 05:15 PM	#809
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Slowing motion Hi there - While slowing down some motion with velocity the render looks terrible, is there a way to get a fairly smooth slo-mo post camera?

September 20th, 2006, 06:37 PM	#810
Pierre Petit New Boot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: canada Posts: 22	vegas-hvx200-raylight question After reading a lot i think i understand the workflow of using raylight with vegas. But what about when your finished editing? Can you render again to dvcprohd?