Vegas Video discussions from 2006 (Q3Q4)

Dwight Flynn · October 21st, 2006, 10:30 AM

Anyone know of a good set of plugins (economical or demo if possible) that will give me different options for white and warm balancing in Vegas?

Dwight

John Rofrano · October 21st, 2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Atilano

#1 For each format should I change the project settings to match what Im rendering to? I have just left the project settings as HDV.

What you are doing sounds OK. I would keep your project settings at HDV and use the “stretch video to fill output frame size (do not letterbox)” option so that any difference in aspect ratio is compensated for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Atilano

#2 What are the 2 best formats to render that would be compatible for Blueray?

From what I’ve read, the Blu-ray spec uses the Microsoft’s VC-1 (VC-9) codec and MPEG-4 AVC High Profile so the two best formats are MP4 and HDWMV. Unfortunately, I don’t know the specifics of the settings to use so that it doesn’t get re-encoded by Blu-ray authoring applications (which don’t even exist yet). It sure is painful out here on the bleeding edge. ;-)

Maybe someone who has a Blu-ray burner can comment?

~jr

Tony Jucin · October 21st, 2006, 01:40 PM

Check out the right side of this video see the black moving around. Is this because I have a hood on my GL1? or what is causing this?

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/w...5e00d2b2f9.htm

Brian Child · October 21st, 2006, 06:03 PM

Update:

Posted the issue to Sony online customer service/support nine days ago.

Still waiting for a response (after receiving the initial "we've got your inquiry and are getting to it ...).

Bram Corstjens · October 21st, 2006, 07:06 PM

Hello,

I'm trying to make 16x9 widescreen from 4x3 normal video.

I can add black bars on top and bottom to get letterboxed 16x9, but I want anamorphic 16x9. So I select "Stretch to fill frame = yes" and "Maintain aspect ration = no" (this way you get that squashy image that looks good on widescreen TV's)

Then I render to DVD PAL Widescreen and everything starts to render. The problem however is that I get interlaced lines when I play the resulting Mpeg video. I also get interlaced lines when played on TV...

When I NOT stretch the video to fill frame (letterbox) and render in DVD PAL 4x3 everything's ok... so it seems like the 'stretch to fill frame' is causing trouble...

Am I doing something wrong here or is it just not possible to make 16x9 anamorphic video from 4x3 video while NOT ruining the interlaced video?

/edit
Seems like Premiere Pro 2 is doing a better job... but I can't really believe Vegas 7 can't do something basic like this correctly...

Jarrod Whaley · October 22nd, 2006, 04:33 AM

It sounds to me like you're seeing more artifacts with the anamorphic output simply because your cropped video is taking up the entire 720x576 raster... You're basically "zooming in" on your footage and making your pixels (and artifacts) larger and thus more noticeable. Conversely, if you simply drop in some black mattes (hardcoded letterbox), you're not "zooming in"... the portion of the image you're still using isn't getting blown up.

I hate to say it because it's not what you want to hear, but you're always going to get sub-par results when cropping 4:3-native DV footage to 16:9. There's not a lot of resolution to begin with in the DV format, and you're basically throwing away some of the precious little you have.

To get decent 16:9 anamorphic DV, you need either a camera with native 16:9 chips or an anamorphic lens adapter. If you can afford neither of those right now, then you probably need to either make peace with 4:3 video or make peace with sub-par 16:9.

Sorry if I've rained on your parade. :)

Bram Corstjens · October 22nd, 2006, 05:01 AM

Don't worry, you're not raining on my parade :) But what I'm getting is definitely NOT just some more artifacts because of zooming. When there's no movement, everythings fine, but when there's movement, the image looks terrible (see attachment: interlaced.jpg) The only thing I have to change to fix this, is NOT to do "stretch to fill frame" I just have to make it letterbox, so really depends on wether I use the "stretch to fill frame" option or not.

Adobe premiere Pro 2.0 is not having this problem stretching the video to anamorphic: See interlaced_good.jpg So it can be done correctly! And yes, it's NOT that adobe premiere is de-interlacing. It really outputs interlaced video that looks good ánd smooth. Furthermore I make sure I choose "lower field first and interlaced" when outputting to MPEG2, so it really isn't about setting the wrong field order or something like that....

Vegas video 7 is just doing something wrong with the interlaced lines when stretching to anamorphic 16x9... Nobody else encountered this???

Peter Sieben · October 22nd, 2006, 02:32 PM

Hi Bram,

For most of my film projects I do a 4:3 to anamorphic 16:9 conversion using Vegas. Including Vegas 7. I only work with 25P PAL footage (from a DVX100 PAL camera), but I'm sure it also works for interlaced PAL video. Follow the steps below:
1. set your project to PAL DV AVI Widescreen in the Project Settings
2. import/capture your 4:3 footage in this project and add it to the timeline
3. For each clip use the Pan/Crop tool to add the 16:9 widescreen frame - the footage in the preview window will look like widescreen without black bars top and below, right?
4. Render the timeline to MPEG2, but do two things: set the Quality to Best (this activates a better calculation method for resized events, and that's happening with the 4:3>16:9 conversion) and choose for the 2-Pass rendering.

This should do the job fine. It works for me very well.

Note: the workflow described above works with Vegas 7. In previous versions of Vegas you have to use the Switch function for each clip on the timeline, where there is some aspect ratio option you have to turn on/off (I can't recall the exact setting, but try it and you'll see the result in the preview window).

Greetings from the Netherlands.

David Ennis · October 22nd, 2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Troxel

Depends on what you're wanting to change. If you want the timeline on bottom instead of the top, that's a new option in Vegas 7 under Options - Preferences. If you just want to move a window around, just click on the dots going up the left side and drag to whereever you want it to be.

Isn't there an undocumented procedure for inverting the layout in 5.0? I used to have it that way but just had to reinstall and was searching for the method again when I found this thread.

Jim Ohair · October 22nd, 2006, 05:41 PM

you need to get to internal preferences
I think its hold shift when opening preferences.
In there is a timeline on top option.
going from memory here...

frame dock on top is what it's called in v6

David Ennis · October 22nd, 2006, 05:52 PM

That's right, Jim, thanks. Meanwhile I had found the article by Spot:
http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/ar...Sony_Vegas.htm

Bram Corstjens · October 22nd, 2006, 07:18 PM

Hi Peter,

Thnx for the explanation. Unfortunately, your description doesn't work for 25i. (I tried)

It seems Vegas just stretches the video no matter what, without taking care of the interlaced lines. The jitter I'm getting also looks like bigger interlaced lines, which is totally logical...

It seems I'm now stuck with Adobe Premiere 2, since that one does appear to take care of the interlaced lines while stretching...

I really like Vegas, but it's quite stupid that such an advanced video editting application doesn't seem to be able to resize interlaced video...

Greetings back from the Netherlands!

Carl Downs · October 22nd, 2006, 10:08 PM

Well... after reviewing dailies from my short... a few of the scenes (consecutive of course) have a small blob in the picture... obviously my cameraman, didnt clean the lens!! AAaaa...! No returning for re-shoot. It is just a small blob... but in some key scenes... HOW do I fix it? Dont tell me I have to go frame by frame??? If I do... is there a "stamp" type tool (like in Photoshop where you can pick up some material just to the side of the damage and stamp down over it) in Vegas? or... do I have to make a mask for every frame... Oh boy... please let me know the best method...

Peter Sieben · October 22nd, 2006, 10:53 PM

Hmmm.... tonight I will do some testing myself with 25i footage.

Are you sure Premiere isn't de-interlacing the footage during/before changing the aspect ratio?
And have you checked your converted Vegas footage on a normal tv (as computerscreens often have a problem playback interlaced footage correctly?)

Matthew Chaboud · October 23rd, 2006, 12:08 AM

Vegas deinterlaces any footage that's going to see a frame-rate/size conversion for a given render (in "good" or "best" rendering modes). Of course, when it's generating interlaced footage, it interlaces output.

The simplest way to think of this is to think of input and output fields as frames. Your 50i footage can be thought of as 50 fields per second. When Vegas makes 50i output, it can actually render 50 frames per second (if the processing chain calls for it) and pull the appropriate field data from that frame information.

Also, if you are dropping these files back into Vegas to preview, preview-quality viewing can show some pretty strange scaling artifacts with interlaced footage. We do this for performance. Preview quality is definitely not intended for final output.

October 21st, 2006, 10:30 AM	#1126
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	Any white or warm balancing plugins for Vegas Anyone know of a good set of plugins (economical or demo if possible) that will give me different options for white and warm balancing in Vegas? Dwight

October 21st, 2006, 01:40 PM	#1128
Tony Jucin Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chitown, Il Posts: 66	Is this the software or my camera? Check out the right side of this video see the black moving around. Is this because I have a hood on my GL1? or what is causing this? http://videos.streetfire.net/video/w...5e00d2b2f9.htm

October 21st, 2006, 07:06 PM	#1130
Bram Corstjens Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 126	Vegas 7 - Pan & Crop to anamorphic widescreen Hello, I'm trying to make 16x9 widescreen from 4x3 normal video. I can add black bars on top and bottom to get letterboxed 16x9, but I want anamorphic 16x9. So I select "Stretch to fill frame = yes" and "Maintain aspect ration = no" (this way you get that squashy image that looks good on widescreen TV's) Then I render to DVD PAL Widescreen and everything starts to render. The problem however is that I get interlaced lines when I play the resulting Mpeg video. I also get interlaced lines when played on TV... When I NOT stretch the video to fill frame (letterbox) and render in DVD PAL 4x3 everything's ok... so it seems like the 'stretch to fill frame' is causing trouble... Am I doing something wrong here or is it just not possible to make 16x9 anamorphic video from 4x3 video while NOT ruining the interlaced video? /edit Seems like Premiere Pro 2 is doing a better job... but I can't really believe Vegas 7 can't do something basic like this correctly...

October 22nd, 2006, 04:33 AM	#1131
Jarrod Whaley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: chattanooga, tn Posts: 721	It sounds to me like you're seeing more artifacts with the anamorphic output simply because your cropped video is taking up the entire 720x576 raster... You're basically "zooming in" on your footage and making your pixels (and artifacts) larger and thus more noticeable. Conversely, if you simply drop in some black mattes (hardcoded letterbox), you're not "zooming in"... the portion of the image you're still using isn't getting blown up. I hate to say it because it's not what you want to hear, but you're always going to get sub-par results when cropping 4:3-native DV footage to 16:9. There's not a lot of resolution to begin with in the DV format, and you're basically throwing away some of the precious little you have. To get decent 16:9 anamorphic DV, you need either a camera with native 16:9 chips or an anamorphic lens adapter. If you can afford neither of those right now, then you probably need to either make peace with 4:3 video or make peace with sub-par 16:9. Sorry if I've rained on your parade. :) __________________ -->jarrod whaley. www.oakstreetfilms.com

October 22nd, 2006, 05:01 AM	#1132
Bram Corstjens Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 126	Don't worry, you're not raining on my parade :) But what I'm getting is definitely NOT just some more artifacts because of zooming. When there's no movement, everythings fine, but when there's movement, the image looks terrible (see attachment: interlaced.jpg) The only thing I have to change to fix this, is NOT to do "stretch to fill frame" I just have to make it letterbox, so really depends on wether I use the "stretch to fill frame" option or not. Adobe premiere Pro 2.0 is not having this problem stretching the video to anamorphic: See interlaced_good.jpg So it can be done correctly! And yes, it's NOT that adobe premiere is de-interlacing. It really outputs interlaced video that looks good ánd smooth. Furthermore I make sure I choose "lower field first and interlaced" when outputting to MPEG2, so it really isn't about setting the wrong field order or something like that.... Vegas video 7 is just doing something wrong with the interlaced lines when stretching to anamorphic 16x9... Nobody else encountered this??? Attached Thumbnails

October 21st, 2006, 06:03 PM	#1129
Brian Child New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 18	Update: Posted the issue to Sony online customer service/support nine days ago. Still waiting for a response (after receiving the initial "we've got your inquiry and are getting to it ...).

October 22nd, 2006, 02:32 PM	#1133
Peter Sieben Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 345	Hi Bram, For most of my film projects I do a 4:3 to anamorphic 16:9 conversion using Vegas. Including Vegas 7. I only work with 25P PAL footage (from a DVX100 PAL camera), but I'm sure it also works for interlaced PAL video. Follow the steps below: 1. set your project to PAL DV AVI Widescreen in the Project Settings 2. import/capture your 4:3 footage in this project and add it to the timeline 3. For each clip use the Pan/Crop tool to add the 16:9 widescreen frame - the footage in the preview window will look like widescreen without black bars top and below, right? 4. Render the timeline to MPEG2, but do two things: set the Quality to Best (this activates a better calculation method for resized events, and that's happening with the 4:3>16:9 conversion) and choose for the 2-Pass rendering. This should do the job fine. It works for me very well. Note: the workflow described above works with Vegas 7. In previous versions of Vegas you have to use the Switch function for each clip on the timeline, where there is some aspect ratio option you have to turn on/off (I can't recall the exact setting, but try it and you'll see the result in the preview window). Greetings from the Netherlands. __________________ Peter / Orphic Film www.orphicfilm.nl and www.myspace.com/orphicfilm

October 22nd, 2006, 05:41 PM	#1135
Jim Ohair Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Laguna Niguel, California Posts: 62	you need to get to internal preferences I think its hold shift when opening preferences. In there is a timeline on top option. going from memory here... frame dock on top is what it's called in v6

October 22nd, 2006, 05:52 PM	#1136
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	That's right, Jim, thanks. Meanwhile I had found the article by Spot: http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/ar...Sony_Vegas.htm __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

October 22nd, 2006, 07:18 PM	#1137
Bram Corstjens Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 126	Hi Peter, Thnx for the explanation. Unfortunately, your description doesn't work for 25i. (I tried) It seems Vegas just stretches the video no matter what, without taking care of the interlaced lines. The jitter I'm getting also looks like bigger interlaced lines, which is totally logical... It seems I'm now stuck with Adobe Premiere 2, since that one does appear to take care of the interlaced lines while stretching... I really like Vegas, but it's quite stupid that such an advanced video editting application doesn't seem to be able to resize interlaced video... Greetings back from the Netherlands!

October 22nd, 2006, 10:08 PM	#1138
Carl Downs Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 101	Small blob on lens/picture... can fix in post? Well... after reviewing dailies from my short... a few of the scenes (consecutive of course) have a small blob in the picture... obviously my cameraman, didnt clean the lens!! AAaaa...! No returning for re-shoot. It is just a small blob... but in some key scenes... HOW do I fix it? Dont tell me I have to go frame by frame??? If I do... is there a "stamp" type tool (like in Photoshop where you can pick up some material just to the side of the damage and stamp down over it) in Vegas? or... do I have to make a mask for every frame... Oh boy... please let me know the best method...

October 22nd, 2006, 10:53 PM	#1139
Peter Sieben Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 345	Hmmm.... tonight I will do some testing myself with 25i footage. Are you sure Premiere isn't de-interlacing the footage during/before changing the aspect ratio? And have you checked your converted Vegas footage on a normal tv (as computerscreens often have a problem playback interlaced footage correctly?) __________________ Peter / Orphic Film www.orphicfilm.nl and www.myspace.com/orphicfilm

October 23rd, 2006, 12:08 AM	#1140
Matthew Chaboud Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 93	Well, something's up here, but I doubt that there's a bug in this one... Vegas deinterlaces any footage that's going to see a frame-rate/size conversion for a given render (in "good" or "best" rendering modes). Of course, when it's generating interlaced footage, it interlaces output. The simplest way to think of this is to think of input and output fields as frames. Your 50i footage can be thought of as 50 fields per second. When Vegas makes 50i output, it can actually render 50 frames per second (if the processing chain calls for it) and pull the appropriate field data from that frame information. Also, if you are dropping these files back into Vegas to preview, preview-quality viewing can show some pretty strange scaling artifacts with interlaced footage. We do this for performance. Preview quality is definitely not intended for final output.