When i hit the "b" key...What's that for? and Normalize on the audio? at DVinfo.net

Marcus Martell · October 31st, 2009, 11:48 AM

I've just experienced that when i press the "b" key a track with the "master"sign appears...What's that for?

Second Q: Normalize function on the audio properties, how does exactly work?
thx

Seth Bloombaum · October 31st, 2009, 12:24 PM

The b key is a shortcut to View | Audio Bus Tracks. Vegas is very deep as an audio editor / DAW, and this feature is related. Most importantly, the Master Audio Bus allows you to create volume envelopes across your entire project, if needed.

Only the Master Audio Bus is visible, unless you create additional audio busses. These might typically be used for reverb/delay efx. Once you've created an additional bus, Insert | Audio Bus, the pan slider of each track will have a drop down to switch that control to the bus send level, which is typical for efx.

There will also be two concentric squares in the track header that allow the track to be fully assigned to a bus. This is most frequently used as a submix, for example, 5 mic tracks for a drumset - once their relative levels are set, a submix allows you to bring them all up and down, or, create a volume envelope across them.

This sort of functionality replicates the functions of a hardware mixer, and most Digital Audio Workstations have it. Learning to use it is beyond the needs of most video editors... But learning to do a master fade-up or fade down is useful when you have multiple audio tracks.

Normalizing a clip means automatically adjusting its volume so that the highest peak hits a preset level (selectable in Options | Preferences | Audio | Normalize peak level).

This is typically used with material that is recorded too low, to bring it into a useful range for further adjustment using track volume or volume envelope. Such a recording usually has other problems, like low signal-to-noise ratio. Some editors say "never normalize", they say it's a bad practice. It's just another clip volume tool, as far as I'm concerned.

PS. there is also a master video bus...

Joe Parker · November 5th, 2009, 10:49 PM

As Seth said, normalize will take into account the highest peak in the clip, be it a cough or brush of the camera mic. If you really want to increase the volume of a quiet clip, use Wave Hammer.

Seth Bloombaum · November 6th, 2009, 12:08 PM

Joe is right, that tools such as Wave Hammer can be used to increase the loudness of a clip or a project. Wave Hammer is a loudness maximizer, and there are others, too, but WH works pretty good.

Peak Normalize, which is what Vegas offers, grabs the volume knob and adjusts strictly on the loudest sound - which may be a door slam. To turn it up further takes that door slam, and perhaps other loud sounds into digital overload, which can sound very bad. But, you should try it sometime to get an idea of what it sounds like.

RMS Normalize, which V doesn't have, bases the volume increase on average instead of peak values. Sound Forge has this.

A loudness maximizer is different - it is, in part, a compressor, which changes the dynamic range of the signal in such a way that the peaks are quieter and the low sounds are hotter. There are several tools for working with dynamic range and loudness, including (at least) Loudness Maximizer, Compressor, Limiter, Multiband Compressor, Exciter.

Wikipedia has an excellent article on compression, which underlies most of the dynamic range tools.

Why do we care? Because there's tremendous variation of the ambient sound in listening environments. Do you want all the dialog heard? All the instruments in the mix? Understanding dynamic range is key to this.

Marcus Martell · November 10th, 2009, 03:40 AM

Excuse me guys?Where is this"Wave Hammer "

thx

Don Bloom · November 10th, 2009, 06:09 AM

non-real time FX-all the way at the bottom. There are a lot of very good things hiding in there.

Marcus Martell · November 10th, 2009, 08:26 AM

Don't get me dummy..maybe i am...but i can't find!NEXT TO?

sorry and many thx

Mike Kujbida · November 10th, 2009, 09:02 AM

Right-click your audio clip, select "Apply Non-Real-Time Event FX..." and click "All" on the tab that comes up.
Wave Hammer Sound is the last FX in the list.

Marcus Martell · November 10th, 2009, 10:35 AM

OUCH!!ican't believe there's all that stuff over there!From where should i start?
It's a new chapter of my editor life over there!Suggestions of something very useful from which i should start?

thx guys many many thx

Joe Parker · November 10th, 2009, 11:37 AM

First suggestion: Don't ever Wave Hammer a clip twice; it can distort. But it's the only effect I use, and only then just to raise a speaker's voice.

Make yourself a preset based on the template "Limit at 6db and maximize". Note the difference between the two sliders. Now set the output slider to whatever you want, and adjust the other to the same difference

. -.1 is actually legal; just don't use 0 or higher. Most cameras output at -12db.

Mike Calla · November 11th, 2009, 11:12 AM

Vegas is a wonderful, WONDERFUL audio app.

I've been through Protools, Neuendo, and Logic, for audio for video (and a LOT for music)...And Vegas easily holds its own . Its a hold over from its Sonic Foundry days as a multitrack version of ACID.

I think ACID (and Vegas) gets a bum rap because of its limited multi-user capabilities which is BIG plus in the pro world, and it started off as a looping program, so there is some stigma there as well, but i use it for multitracking, composing etc. I'm a very PROUD ACID user (i can see the music) since V1.0. and haven't used a loop since V2.0:). Version 1 to 6 had no per track metering which was is big no no, but V7 has full per track metering capabilities and the package is complete!

For ease of use, and an intuitive GUI beyond belief - ACID rocks!

PS just like adobe products share a similar GUI, ACID/Vegas/Sound Forge do as well, if not better. So if you can use Vegas, you can use ACID!

Marcus Martell · November 11th, 2009, 02:31 PM

wHat about cinescore software?There's a deal today?Who uses it?

Dugi Barr · November 11th, 2009, 04:04 PM

You may like to read this Marcus
Sony Creative Software - Forums - Vegas Pro - Video Messages

Mike Calla · November 11th, 2009, 07:08 PM

I used a trial version of cinescore when it came out... if you can't write music, or have a limited knowledge of DAWs and virtual instruments its ok i guess. It does sounds good, but its basically a looping program - how can i put this... Cinescore is flexibly limiting and reassuringly repetitive with great samples .

I can write music so cinescore was like a toy for me:)

October 31st, 2009, 11:48 AM	#1
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	When i hit the "b" key...What's that for? and Normalize on the audio? I've just experienced that when i press the "b" key a track with the "master"sign appears...What's that for? Second Q: Normalize function on the audio properties, how does exactly work? thx

October 31st, 2009, 12:24 PM	#2
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	The b key is a shortcut to View \| Audio Bus Tracks. Vegas is very deep as an audio editor / DAW, and this feature is related. Most importantly, the Master Audio Bus allows you to create volume envelopes across your entire project, if needed. Only the Master Audio Bus is visible, unless you create additional audio busses. These might typically be used for reverb/delay efx. Once you've created an additional bus, Insert \| Audio Bus, the pan slider of each track will have a drop down to switch that control to the bus send level, which is typical for efx. There will also be two concentric squares in the track header that allow the track to be fully assigned to a bus. This is most frequently used as a submix, for example, 5 mic tracks for a drumset - once their relative levels are set, a submix allows you to bring them all up and down, or, create a volume envelope across them. This sort of functionality replicates the functions of a hardware mixer, and most Digital Audio Workstations have it. Learning to use it is beyond the needs of most video editors... But learning to do a master fade-up or fade down is useful when you have multiple audio tracks. Normalizing a clip means automatically adjusting its volume so that the highest peak hits a preset level (selectable in Options \| Preferences \| Audio \| Normalize peak level). This is typically used with material that is recorded too low, to bring it into a useful range for further adjustment using track volume or volume envelope. Such a recording usually has other problems, like low signal-to-noise ratio. Some editors say "never normalize", they say it's a bad practice. It's just another clip volume tool, as far as I'm concerned. PS. there is also a master video bus... __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

November 6th, 2009, 12:08 PM	#4
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Joe is right, that tools such as Wave Hammer can be used to increase the loudness of a clip or a project. Wave Hammer is a loudness maximizer, and there are others, too, but WH works pretty good. Peak Normalize, which is what Vegas offers, grabs the volume knob and adjusts strictly on the loudest sound - which may be a door slam. To turn it up further takes that door slam, and perhaps other loud sounds into digital overload, which can sound very bad. But, you should try it sometime to get an idea of what it sounds like. RMS Normalize, which V doesn't have, bases the volume increase on average instead of peak values. Sound Forge has this. A loudness maximizer is different - it is, in part, a compressor, which changes the dynamic range of the signal in such a way that the peaks are quieter and the low sounds are hotter. There are several tools for working with dynamic range and loudness, including (at least) Loudness Maximizer, Compressor, Limiter, Multiband Compressor, Exciter. Wikipedia has an excellent article on compression, which underlies most of the dynamic range tools. Why do we care? Because there's tremendous variation of the ambient sound in listening environments. Do you want all the dialog heard? All the instruments in the mix? Understanding dynamic range is key to this. __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

November 10th, 2009, 06:09 AM	#6
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	non-real time FX-all the way at the bottom. There are a lot of very good things hiding in there. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

November 11th, 2009, 11:12 AM	#11
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	Vegas is a wonderful, WONDERFUL audio app. I've been through Protools, Neuendo, and Logic, for audio for video (and a LOT for music)...And Vegas easily holds its own . Its a hold over from its Sonic Foundry days as a multitrack version of ACID. I think ACID (and Vegas) gets a bum rap because of its limited multi-user capabilities which is BIG plus in the pro world, and it started off as a looping program, so there is some stigma there as well, but i use it for multitracking, composing etc. I'm a very PROUD ACID user (i can see the music) since V1.0. and haven't used a loop since V2.0:). Version 1 to 6 had no per track metering which was is big no no, but V7 has full per track metering capabilities and the package is complete! For ease of use, and an intuitive GUI beyond belief - ACID rocks! PS just like adobe products share a similar GUI, ACID/Vegas/Sound Forge do as well, if not better. So if you can use Vegas, you can use ACID! __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com

November 5th, 2009, 10:49 PM	#3
Joe Parker Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Shannondale, WV Posts: 50	As Seth said, normalize will take into account the highest peak in the clip, be it a cough or brush of the camera mic. If you really want to increase the volume of a quiet clip, use Wave Hammer.

November 10th, 2009, 03:40 AM	#5
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Excuse me guys?Where is this"Wave Hammer " thx

November 10th, 2009, 08:26 AM	#7
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Don't get me dummy..maybe i am...but i can't find!NEXT TO? sorry and many thx

November 10th, 2009, 09:02 AM	#8
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Right-click your audio clip, select "Apply Non-Real-Time Event FX..." and click "All" on the tab that comes up. Wave Hammer Sound is the last FX in the list.

November 10th, 2009, 10:35 AM	#9
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	OUCH!!ican't believe there's all that stuff over there!From where should i start? It's a new chapter of my editor life over there!Suggestions of something very useful from which i should start? thx guys many many thx

November 10th, 2009, 11:37 AM	#10
Joe Parker Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Shannondale, WV Posts: 50	First suggestion: Don't ever Wave Hammer a clip twice; it can distort. But it's the only effect I use, and only then just to raise a speaker's voice. Make yourself a preset based on the template "Limit at 6db and maximize". Note the difference between the two sliders. Now set the output slider to whatever you want, and adjust the other to the same difference . -.1 is actually legal; just don't use 0 or higher. Most cameras output at -12db.

November 11th, 2009, 02:31 PM	#12
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	wHat about cinescore software?There's a deal today?Who uses it?

November 11th, 2009, 04:04 PM	#13
Dugi Barr Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Esher, Surrey Posts: 89	You may like to read this Marcus Sony Creative Software - Forums - Vegas Pro - Video Messages

November 11th, 2009, 07:08 PM	#14
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	I used a trial version of cinescore when it came out... if you can't write music, or have a limited knowledge of DAWs and virtual instruments its ok i guess. It does sounds good, but its basically a looping program - how can i put this... Cinescore is flexibly limiting and reassuringly repetitive with great samples . I can write music so cinescore was like a toy for me:) __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com