Time to upgrade computer

Jeff Harper · December 25th, 2009, 04:46 AM

Larry, I second what Perrone says. What you've been reading is a rash of people with issues (me included), but moving to another NLE will only change the issues to those you will have with any NLE.

On the other hand, my friend that uses that uses Final Cut Pro has Motion and other tools that allow him to create the most amazing DVD menus I've ever seens, things one could only dream of in DVDA. Occasionally I've been tempted to move to another NLE, but I have so much time invested in Vegas I hesitate to do so...I'm so busy with running a business I just don't want to take the time to bother with another.

Robert M Wright · December 25th, 2009, 04:29 PM

It does sound a bit contradictory, leaning toward DIY to save a few bucks, and then looking at going the Apple route (most expensive hardware).

The best reason for DIY (in my opinion), is the ability to put together a computer with top notch, reliable components (economically).

I really wouldn't rely to much on Videoguys recommendations for DIY computers. No slight intended, but while they obviously have built some DIY computers from components, it is clearly not their area of expertise.

Also, trying to classify system recommendations, sort of along an entry, mid-level, heavy duty type scale, for video editing workstations is just overly simplistic. You really need to at least take into account what software will be run on the workstation. For example, Vegas just doesn't need a video card with screaming fast hardware 3D acceleration. Won't do a dang thing for Vegas. Zip, nothing, nada. If you are going to be using a single monitor, even on-board graphics (so long as there's solid hardware support for accelerating the major HD codecs - like with AMD's 780G chipset, for example) can work just as well as some blazing fast, set-your-hair-on-fire video card that needs it's own dedicated liquid nitrogen cooling system (and save you a chunk of change).

RAM memory is another place folks waste money. Expensive, "fast" memory won't speed up anything for you, when editing and compressing video. I've tested cutting memory speed in half, and compressing with various codecs, and there is just no significant difference in encoding times. Simply get economical memory that works reliably with your motherboard. Spend money on more memory, not faster memory.

When it comes to power supplies, that's probably the single most important component to make sure you get premium quality. Anything but a premium quality power supply essentially puts every other component in your system at risk. Fortunately, these days, Corsair's entire line of power supplies are about the best you can get, and prices aren't typically any higher than reasonable alternatives. There are other reputable companies making decent power supplies (like Antec, for example), but quality does not seem to be as consistently top-notch, across the board with every model, as with Corsair (and prices aren't notably better in general - often you can pay more for the same or less quality). Buy anything that's a lot cheaper, and you'll probably regret it eventually.

A lot of folks are under the illusion that AMD CPUs are a poor choice for editing systems. Not always true at all. If you want to build a system around a quad-core CPU, there are basically two classes of CPUs to consider. (Note that for some situations, like light duty HDV editing, and certainly for DV editing, dual or triple core CPUs can often be quite adequate.) There's Intel's second generation Core 2 and AMD's Phenom II, which are very roughly equivalent (especially in terms of performance per dollar spent on the CPU), and then there is Intel's Core i7, a significant move up in performance.

Core 2 and Phenom II are very suitable in many situations (if not most). Unless you have some real burning need to edit AVCHD natively (and do consider using an intermediate codec, like Cineform or Canopus HQ, instead), or you are in a heavy duty, time-pressured production environment, chances are Core 2 or Phenom II will work pretty nicely for you to run your NLE.

When it comes to choosing between Core 2 or Phenom II, I lean pretty strongly toward Phenom II nowadays. From a price/performance perspective, Phenom II will currently pretty much edge out Core 2. (A $185 Phenom II 965 will generally give you a bit faster performance, with most tasks, than a $249.99 Core 2 quad Q9550 - Newegg's prices as I write this.) This is especially true, if you are running software that does not utilize GPU acceleration, and will be using a single monitor setup. The motherboard options for Phenom II, with on-board graphics that have good HD codec hardware acceleration, are numerous and can be very inexpensive (well under $100 for many decent motherboards built around AMD's 780G or NVIDIA's 8200 chipsets).

Gerald Webb · December 27th, 2009, 07:30 PM

That is exactly my setup , but I have 2 more TB drives and i have a 750 with no probs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum

Jeff, I'm going nutz here. I've been all over specs at newegg and manufacturer's sites, and I can't find any power consumption data. Do they expect us to spec a power supply by trial and error?

I'm trying to figure out if 750w will cover x58 MOBO/i7-920, overclocking, 12GB RAM, GPU, burner, system drive, 2 raid drives, and one more archiving removeable drive (caddy) - the info does not seem to be available!

Any ideas here, have you come across a configurator for PS or ???

***edit***
I appear to have answered my own question, there are a number of PS calculators online, Computer Shopper has some links in this thread.

Apparently the above is OK for standard clocking, and also for moderate overclocking - I've done these calcs upping the system & cpu loading to 100%, as for extended rendering. The default sys/cpu loads are lower in the calculators.
***end edit***

Robert M Wright · December 27th, 2009, 08:00 PM

You really have to look at more than the gross power rating on a power supply, to determine what it can deliver. You have to look at each rail (and what you need from each rail). That said, a premium quality 750wpower supply will be fine for almost any reasonably typical computer. You really got to build a hog to need a bigger one.

Seth Bloombaum · December 27th, 2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald Webb

That is exactly my setup , but I have 2 more TB drives and i have a 750 with no probs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

You really have to look at more than the gross power rating on a power supply, to determine what it can deliver. You have to look at each rail (and what you need from each rail). That said, a premium quality 750wpower supply will be fine for almost any reasonably typical computer. You really got to build a hog to need a bigger one.

Thanks Gerald & Robert. Really appreciate the confirmation.

I did order with an Antec 750w, though I was very interested to later read Robert's praises of the Corsair PSUs.

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December 25th, 2009, 04:46 AM	#16
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Larry, I second what Perrone says. What you've been reading is a rash of people with issues (me included), but moving to another NLE will only change the issues to those you will have with any NLE. On the other hand, my friend that uses that uses Final Cut Pro has Motion and other tools that allow him to create the most amazing DVD menus I've ever seens, things one could only dream of in DVDA. Occasionally I've been tempted to move to another NLE, but I have so much time invested in Vegas I hesitate to do so...I'm so busy with running a business I just don't want to take the time to bother with another.

December 25th, 2009, 04:29 PM	#17
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	It does sound a bit contradictory, leaning toward DIY to save a few bucks, and then looking at going the Apple route (most expensive hardware). The best reason for DIY (in my opinion), is the ability to put together a computer with top notch, reliable components (economically). I really wouldn't rely to much on Videoguys recommendations for DIY computers. No slight intended, but while they obviously have built some DIY computers from components, it is clearly not their area of expertise. Also, trying to classify system recommendations, sort of along an entry, mid-level, heavy duty type scale, for video editing workstations is just overly simplistic. You really need to at least take into account what software will be run on the workstation. For example, Vegas just doesn't need a video card with screaming fast hardware 3D acceleration. Won't do a dang thing for Vegas. Zip, nothing, nada. If you are going to be using a single monitor, even on-board graphics (so long as there's solid hardware support for accelerating the major HD codecs - like with AMD's 780G chipset, for example) can work just as well as some blazing fast, set-your-hair-on-fire video card that needs it's own dedicated liquid nitrogen cooling system (and save you a chunk of change). RAM memory is another place folks waste money. Expensive, "fast" memory won't speed up anything for you, when editing and compressing video. I've tested cutting memory speed in half, and compressing with various codecs, and there is just no significant difference in encoding times. Simply get economical memory that works reliably with your motherboard. Spend money on more memory, not faster memory. When it comes to power supplies, that's probably the single most important component to make sure you get premium quality. Anything but a premium quality power supply essentially puts every other component in your system at risk. Fortunately, these days, Corsair's entire line of power supplies are about the best you can get, and prices aren't typically any higher than reasonable alternatives. There are other reputable companies making decent power supplies (like Antec, for example), but quality does not seem to be as consistently top-notch, across the board with every model, as with Corsair (and prices aren't notably better in general - often you can pay more for the same or less quality). Buy anything that's a lot cheaper, and you'll probably regret it eventually. A lot of folks are under the illusion that AMD CPUs are a poor choice for editing systems. Not always true at all. If you want to build a system around a quad-core CPU, there are basically two classes of CPUs to consider. (Note that for some situations, like light duty HDV editing, and certainly for DV editing, dual or triple core CPUs can often be quite adequate.) There's Intel's second generation Core 2 and AMD's Phenom II, which are very roughly equivalent (especially in terms of performance per dollar spent on the CPU), and then there is Intel's Core i7, a significant move up in performance. Core 2 and Phenom II are very suitable in many situations (if not most). Unless you have some real burning need to edit AVCHD natively (and do consider using an intermediate codec, like Cineform or Canopus HQ, instead), or you are in a heavy duty, time-pressured production environment, chances are Core 2 or Phenom II will work pretty nicely for you to run your NLE. When it comes to choosing between Core 2 or Phenom II, I lean pretty strongly toward Phenom II nowadays. From a price/performance perspective, Phenom II will currently pretty much edge out Core 2. (A $185 Phenom II 965 will generally give you a bit faster performance, with most tasks, than a $249.99 Core 2 quad Q9550 - Newegg's prices as I write this.) This is especially true, if you are running software that does not utilize GPU acceleration, and will be using a single monitor setup. The motherboard options for Phenom II, with on-board graphics that have good HD codec hardware acceleration, are numerous and can be very inexpensive (well under $100 for many decent motherboards built around AMD's 780G or NVIDIA's 8200 chipsets).

December 27th, 2009, 08:00 PM	#19
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	You really have to look at more than the gross power rating on a power supply, to determine what it can deliver. You have to look at each rail (and what you need from each rail). That said, a premium quality 750wpower supply will be fine for almost any reasonably typical computer. You really got to build a hog to need a bigger one.