DV Info Net

DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   What Happens in Vegas... (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-happens-vegas/)
-   -   new DSLR plugin (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-happens-vegas/475552-new-dslr-plugin.html)

Mike Kujbida March 25th, 2010 09:04 AM

new DSLR plugin
 
In case you weren't aware of it, DVFilm (the folks who make Raylight) recently released a plugin called Epic I specifically designed for this new generation of cameras and it's only $45 U.S.

From the site:
The latest generation of digital SLRs shoot spectacular HD video and give filmmakers a wide range of creative control from interchangeable SLR lenses to low-light sensitivity. However, one drawback has been the H.264 codec they use to record video. Most non-linear editing systems cannot play back these files in real time unless you have an extremely fast computer. There can also be reliability problems with a large number of files in the project. This is where DVFilm EPIC I comes in.

The EPIC I plugin for Sony Vegas Pro 9 allows you to edit DSLR's H.264 Quicktime files in real time by using our "INSTANT EDIT" method. You can edit in real time, on practically any machine! The Instant Edit method is totally transparent: that means NO transcoding, NO swapping files, NO hassles! Epic can also handle hundreds of files with hundreds of effects and transitions with excellent stability and well-controlled memory usage.

Jay Massengill March 25th, 2010 04:28 PM

Anybody tried it yet? Any idea how they are working this "magic"?

Marcus van Bavel March 26th, 2010 03:10 AM

It's done with proxies that are made automatically in the background and switched in and out automatically as well. In other words, when you are viewing half- or quarter-sized frames in the preview window for example, the video comes from the hidden proxy. But if you render full size or look at frames full size, then the original is used.

However unlike transcoding or manually creating proxies, you can start editing right away instead of waiting.

There are several modes you can choose from and three different quality levels to choose depending on the speed of your computer. We have found that it works well even on single-core laptops.

Also another big feature is it stabilizes the performance of Vegas on large quicktime projects. You can think of Epic as standing between Vegas and quicktime and making sure they both behave themselves and it prevents crashing.

It's a brand new product and we welcome any feedback here.

Seth Bloombaum March 26th, 2010 07:09 PM

Marcus,

Seems like a cool tool for a good price - hats off to you for seizing a niche opportunity.

I'd just finished numerous small edits of 5d clips and was well familiar with their timeline performance (and occasional rendering crashes), so, I thought I'd give the trial a go.

What's the best support method for getting started? I went through the tut at dvfilm step by step, and reread the sony forum thread, but never did get the trial to work. Of course it was very late last night...

PS. I'll second some of the comments over at sony, seems like "the pillar is red" "the pillar is purple" isn't friendly to newbies - and we're all newbies with this one!

Marcus van Bavel March 26th, 2010 10:01 PM

Thank you. Are you running 64-bit windows? Looks like due to a bug Epic is not starting the Epic Control program automatically in 64-bit windows. Until we get that fixed, you may have to start it manually (from the Windows Start menu) before running Vegas 9 32-bit. Then with the Epic proxy option turned on, if you drag a clip into the timeline you should see a progress bar pop up when it starts making the proxy.

If that doesn't fix it, submit this form, Support Request and someone in support will get back to you.

Seth Bloombaum March 27th, 2010 10:22 AM

Thanks for the reply. 64-bit Win7, yes, running Vegas9-32. And yes, did have epic running before booting vegas (which will be so if one follows the tutorial step-by-step).

Marcus, thanks, I'm interested to see this work. More and more 5d/7d footage keeps coming my way. Will start things with support later in the week.

Brian Luce March 29th, 2010 04:49 PM

So with this plug in perhaps we won't need Cineform?

Brian Luce March 29th, 2010 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum (Post 1505969)
Marcus,


What's the best support method for getting started? I went through the tut at dvfilm step by step, and reread the sony forum thread, but never did get the trial to work. Of course it was very late last night...

I couldn't get it to work either. The software doesn't seem to do anything.

Robert St-Onge March 29th, 2010 06:16 PM

Brian,

There as been an update to the demo: 1.0.2

I have been in contact with support and it was issued today

Epic I by DVFilm - Edit DSLR H.264 Quicktimes from Canon 5d, Canon 7d, or Canon Rebel in real time with Sony Vegas Pro 9.0

The bug prevented Windows 7 64bits users from running the application.

Finally works! Mind you that I haven't fully tested it yet, few things to sort out, but it looks promising.

Btw, support is very collaborative and quick turnaround

Rob

Marcus van Bavel March 29th, 2010 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Luce (Post 1507229)
So with this plug in perhaps we won't need Cineform?

Epic I would be used instead of transcoding quicktimes for Vegas, yes. You might still want CineForm for other formats or other purposes.

We hope to extend Epic I to AVCHD stream files and Red files (Epic II?)but that might be a few months away at least.

Brian Luce March 30th, 2010 12:51 PM

I have this up and running. It's pretty cool. I had to go to control panel and turn User Account setting on/off and restart.

I just heard about Epic yesterday, was about to go to videoguys and order Cineform, now I might not.

Perrone Ford March 30th, 2010 03:33 PM

What kind of proxies does this program create? What codec is it using?

Robert St-Onge March 30th, 2010 05:46 PM

Perrone,
The proxy file is an MXF file in the DVCPROHD or DVCPRO format. The frame size of the proxy is the same as the frame size of the H.264 file, unless you have the or -size options selected.

Taken from: Raylight Ultra Version 1

Robert St-Onge March 30th, 2010 06:03 PM

I still have to test it a little more, but so far I am very impressed.

I even got some EX1 raw footage on the timeline with Epic's proxies from my Canon T2i, added some transitions and effects and rendered it, worked fine.

I also did another test where I have copied my project onto another computer that didn't have Epic installed. When you open your .veg, it is referencing to the original Canon footage, just like a normal project, which is great since you can archive your project and open it years later on a more powerful machine and it would still be referenced to the original footage. You could then delete all your proxy folders and work with the available technology then.

I believe this is one of the best if not the best and most affordable solution there is right now, and it is also a time saving and disk space saving solution.

Rob

Brian Luce March 30th, 2010 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert St-Onge (Post 1507735)
I believe this is one of the best if not the best and most affordable solution there is right now, and it is also a time saving and disk space saving solution.

Rob

I'm thinking it might be more convenient that Cineform, So far, it doesn't really seem to add any additional work flow steps, it's as if you're working natively in h264. I get tired of juggling MPEG streamclip, DnX, Clipbrowser, Virtual Dub, Cf etc. Simple is good for me.

Perrone Ford March 30th, 2010 06:36 PM

Hmmm, that's a bit dicey...

Taking a full frame, square pixel, 4:2:0 format, and changing it to a anamorphic, non-square, 4:2:2 format. Probably ok for cutting, but I'd want to shift back to the real thing before doing any color work or text overlays, or anything of that nature.

Probably good for the rough cut though.

Robert St-Onge March 30th, 2010 07:10 PM

Taken from:

http://dvfilm.com/epic/help.htm


10-bit YUV mode H.264 files
The proxy is used only when the EPIC Quality Column is red. Otherwise the H.264 original is used. The Vegas Preview quality setting has no effect in this mode. In this mode, we strongly suggest that the “Mark Proxy” option be turned on. This will warn you if a file is rendered in EPIC Red.

Normal (RGB) mode, H.264 files
In this mode, with 10-bit YUV turned off, it is the Vegas preview setting that controls the proxy usage. If Vegas is in Preview mode, or in the lesser size modes, the proxy will be used. In Preview Full, the original H.264 file will be used. However, you can force the plug-in to use the proxy in all preview modes by setting the EPIC quality to red.

Robert St-Onge April 6th, 2010 10:52 PM

Purchased Epic and really happy so far.
Conversion to 60P from Canon has been fixed.

Got some 450 shots on the timeline, over an hour and a half, all I did shoot with my T2i so far! Several fx and transitions.
Rendered few minutes and all went fine.

Still experimenting on some workflow. I now leave the show quality window set to high at all times. If playback chokes on the native .mov, which it will after a second or so, it automatically switch to the proxy on playback.

Brilliant plugin, again, I think this is the best and cheapest alternative, and let's you render from the original.

Rob

Brian Luce April 7th, 2010 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert St-Onge (Post 1510857)
Purchased Epic and really happy so far.



Rob

I am happy so far too. I was gonna get CF but heard too many stories about activation issues and crashes.

Howie Cheung April 20th, 2010 11:26 PM

This plug-in seems like a viable solution.

I was wondering what you guys did when you rendered the final output.

My Vegas 9 is rendering out the proxies.. do I have to disable DVFilm when rendering?

Marcus van Bavel April 20th, 2010 11:52 PM

At least 2 ways to do it:

For full-size renders, put it in high-quality "purple" mode

For reduced-size renders (like for DVD) uncheck "use proxies"

Sam Kanter April 21st, 2010 02:00 PM

Will a future version of Epic work with Vegas 64-bit?

Marcus van Bavel April 21st, 2010 05:02 PM

Yes; we have it functioning and it will be included in the next free update.

We are also working on plug-ins for Vegas 8, Premiere Pro and Final Cut Pro.

Sam Kanter April 21st, 2010 08:34 PM

Cool! I'll definitely give it a try when you get the 64-bit version working. Timeframe?

Chris Barcellos May 2nd, 2010 02:33 AM

My review:

I had posted over at the Cineform forum about the idea of using Epic as a cutting tool, to render Cineform clips that were to be used in the final edit. The idea was that in a large batch of clips, one could quickly convert to the Epic's proxy files, then cut out clips needed to edited in full Cineform files, and render those portions out. I expected time and drive savings.

It seemed like a good idea, because Epic's demo version seem to render almost instantaneous proxy files. Problem is that in its demo version only renders 5 second sections of any clip, and it hides the transcoding process time for a large file. It also hides how big your transcoded file will be.

The renders times are longer on my Window 7 lap top, than rendering the same file in Cineform.

The Cineform file is about twice the size, but both files play back in Vegas with equal ease.

Except for file size savings in a larger project, I am not seeing a benefit to this program for Cineform owners.

Cineform users pay a bit more for DVFilm -- by about three times-- but the fact that you get a clean editable outweighs the $ 100 or so extra in cost.

Marcus van Bavel May 2nd, 2010 12:59 PM

Hi, thanks for purchasing it. You can certainly use Epic as a transcoder, however that's not what it is.

The point of Epic is that you can do many of your editing tasks while Epic is preparing for real time playback in the background. The point is to get away from the tape-like workflow that transcoding forces upon you.

Right after shooting you can drag your DSLR quicktimes directly into Vegas from the file explorer. You can select takes. You can select the in and out points with the trimmer. You can put the clips into the timeline and set up your rough cut in its proper order of shots. You can adjust transition points. You can do all those things without waiting for any transcodes to finish.

Also if you drop clips into the timeline in rough order from start to finish, the first clip is likely ready for RT playback by the time you have set its in and out points (say for example, one minute to think about the in and out points on a 30 sec clip). Once the clip is trimmed then, it will playback in real time. And thus once all the clips are assembled and roughed in, the whole rough cut is ready for RT playback.

Also its important to use the purple mode for rendering. If you do this the real time playback mode is irrelevant to rendering-- thus the fine quality of the real time files are not important-- you are always using the original files for rendering.

One more point: people have to keep their transcode files forever. With Epic the extra files are deletable. You don't need them to archive or later restore your project. So the extra file space, long-term, is zero.

Robert St-Onge May 2nd, 2010 08:18 PM

So I have been using Epic I on and off for several weeks now with Vegas 9.0d (previously 9.0c), did my first corporate job with mixed footage from my EX1 and Canon T2i and it is working very well.

It is now always enabled, no matter what and it is not conflicting at all with Vegas, even if not editing Canon footage or footage that would require Epic I.

I am also leaving the purple mode on at all times, instead I just switch Vegas preview from full to half and vice-versa. This way I never forget to turn the purple mode on for full quality render. You also get a full quality render even if your preview is set to half in Vegas.

Great product, great price and very solid!

Rob

Matthias Krause May 4th, 2010 02:55 PM

Still not working with Vegas 8.0?

Marcus van Bavel May 5th, 2010 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthias Krause (Post 1523182)
Still not working with Vegas 8.0?

Not yet, it will be a few weeks at least.

We are working now on the Vegas 9/64-bit plug-in and it is functioning and close to finished.

Matthias Krause May 6th, 2010 10:38 AM

Do you guys really force me to buy Neoscene? Ill have to finish a project next week... ;-(

Michael Liebergot July 24th, 2010 07:20 AM

Marcus, any plans on making the plugin work with FCP?

Marcus van Bavel July 25th, 2010 04:12 PM

Yes, hopefully it will be out by late August.

Michael Liebergot July 25th, 2010 04:36 PM

That would rock.
I don't mind using ProResLT files, but hate having to transcode them every-time I edit. Being able to work with native AVCHD files in FCP in real time would rock.

Harry Simpson July 30th, 2010 10:58 AM

And it does work in Vegas Studio HD 10 right? Any issues with that so far? Wonder if it provides even smoother editing than the Cineform AVI converted from MOV files? So it never actually does anything but presentes the MOVs via a proxy so they view better for editing right.

Last Cineform AVIs I converted were huge!

Marcus van Bavel July 30th, 2010 05:39 PM

Epic 1.1 has the Vegas Movie Studio HD 10 suppport. No problems to report so far.

That's right, working in the background it creates real-time files for playback but you always render from the originals. Switching between the original-file mode and the real-time mode is done with a button and can occur even in middle of playback.

Michael Ojjeh July 30th, 2010 06:08 PM

Marcus, I use Epic with my Sony Vegas9, the problem I am having with it is trying to view my footage when I'm editing it just not viewable, I cannot tell what's in focus and what's not, if you cannot see clear footage you cannot edit !!

Marcus van Bavel July 31st, 2010 04:27 AM

You put it into purple mode with the greek column to view details. Right-click
on the Epic icon in the taskbar and select "Show Quality Window"

Also if your computer is fast enough you can use the full-size RT option. In that case
you would move the slider all the way to the right and remake your RT files
by deleting all the EPIC folders and reloading the project. See the epic online help
for details dvfilm.com/epic/help.htm


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:42 PM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network