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Old September 15th, 2010, 07:08 PM   #1
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Vegas preview window vs computer monitor

Hi there,
Wander if someone can help me with this one.
when ever I work on color correction or grading and get to the point that I am happy, the results are different when view it on windows media players, it is way more saturated.
I am not sure where is the problem.
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Old September 15th, 2010, 07:36 PM   #2
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If your computer monitor is properly set up AND the video is meant for the web and not a TV set, then ignore any media player you use as they're all different.
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Old September 15th, 2010, 10:54 PM   #3
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The issue is likely that you were working with your footage in Studio RGB, or sRGB (generally the default in Vegas) but viewing it in a preview window (ie not external and not second monitor full-screen) so you were viewing it in Computer RGB, or cRGB. sRGB black is 16:16:16, but cRGB black is 0:0:0, and the white is even more capped at 235:235:235.

I would wager that the player you've got assumes it's sRGB coming in and 'applies' an sRGB to cRBG filter, but because your colour/grading was done in sRGB (but not viewed on an sRGB device) you will get curious results.

Try putting a Colour Correction filter on the preview window (the FX icon is at the top) and select 'Studio RGB to Computer RGB' and see if your preview window shows something similar to what your media player is showing.

Grade with the filter in place but you have to, have to, have to remember to disable it before you render, as that filter applies to all output, not just preview Most of the codecs expect to 'see' sRGB colours, so if you feed them cRGB (because of the filter) they'll record bad colour and your media player output will look as awful as before, or worse as now detail is lost.

Your best option, is to use a proper sRGB external preview device. Or, hook up a second monitor/video card and then in the Preview Device options, you can tell it to use sRGB values, and select the appropriate colour profile for your monitor. (de)interlacing will still be potentially icky, but the colour should look 'right'. Both of these options free you from forgetting the output filter and messing up.

Much, much information has been amassed by Glenn Chan, his site is invaluable and you should spend a good bit of time reading it. In particular, things like showing how Vegas Pro decodes differently depending on your project bit depth. Here is a good starting link, but read all the appropriate ones:

Glennchan.info

Hope this helps.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #4
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Thank you for the help.
So I connected 2nd monitor and follow this "Windows Secondary Display May use computer RGB or studio RGB levels. The setting is under Preferences -> Preview Device (tab) -> Color management (checkbox) -> Use Studio RGB (16 to 235). If the Use Studio RGB checkbox is active and checked, the windows secondary display will want to see studio RGB levels."
and it is getting better but it still look much saturated when done rendering and preview with windows media.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 12:40 AM   #5
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Are you using Vegas Pro in 8 or 32 bit mode?

Also, Mike has a point in that it's hard to please media players.

When previewing it properly on the external monitor, if you're happy with the colours/saturation there, then I think that's as close to what you're going to see on a DVD or actual video source as possible, and probably what you should aim for.

Things that might help the AVI issue:

1) Add an appropriate FX (Saturation Adjust, Levels, Colour Correction, etc) to the output FX chain, adjust it appropriately and see how it looks in the media player in question. You should probably save the settings so you can adjust and/or reuse at will. Just remember to remove it before doing a DVD or before doing any more grading/correcting.
2) Try a different codec. What are you rendering to now?
3) Try a different player, see if you are just expecting too much from the media player.

I'm kinda surprised that the steps you have taken haven't brought the full-screen preview and media player closer in line.

Remember, the sRGB setting you made ONLY applies when the preview is in full screen mode... And you have to manually (afaik) set that each time. On the top of the preview window, second button in (or Alt-Shift-4) to make it take over the whole display.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 10:24 AM   #6
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I am using the 8 bit
project is 1080i
footage is m2t and 7d footage converted to cineform
Render to 1080-60i.
After connecting the 2nd monitor for preview and taking the steps I described the image is much closer but still not there.
I wander if the problem is with my Video card.
Lately I have many problems with Vegas and it might all related to the video card?
For example when ever I apply the quick contrast fx of new blue my footage turn to be with noise and flickering.
and many times Vegas crash on me to the point that i have to save every min.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 11:32 AM   #7
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I don't think your colouring issue is likely video card related. Other than not being "professional quality" it might not produce colours exactly, but bad colours are far more a display device issue.

The crashing, etc. could be any number of things. Normally, from what I've heard at least, using Cineform should be fairly stable. Applying an effect like the contrast fixer likely adds a fair bit of processing to your preview though. Have you tried changing the preview quality to a lower setting? You really shouldn't get "noise" in it though. Does the noise render out also, or is it just in the preview?

Perhaps your machine is just a little under-powered to handle full 1080 rez? There really is a _lot_ of data to process on each frame for 1080, regardless of the PAR.

You might want to look at EPIC or one of the other proxy editing solutions for Vegas. They create a low-rez proxy file that you edit/grade/fx with, then click a button to render using the original hi-rez source.

Also, if you have 3GB+ of RAM, there are things you can tweak in windows to allow Vegas to get at more than 2GB of memory, which can sometimes help crashing issues. Search here for 'LAA' (Large Address Aware) or 'low memory', etc.

Or, pick yourself up a 6-core hyperthreading capable machine with triple-channel DDR3 for cheap 12GB of RAM, Win7 64 and run the 64 bit version of Vegas =)
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:06 PM   #8
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I can never remember the dang colour spaces of formats... so i keep i cheat-sheets taped to the bottom of the the keyboards here - And they're taken directly from Glenn's site

I'm not at home now but it's all on Glenn site in the Vegas section
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Old September 28th, 2010, 10:10 PM   #9
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Glenn Chan's Vegas Articles
LOTS of really good information to try and digest in there.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 11:06 PM   #10
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...also do yourself a favour and pick up a jVC hmc150 monitor

WELL WORTH the few hundred! Great monitor!
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Old September 30th, 2010, 11:45 PM   #11
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I could not find this monitor.
Cold you post a link for this one.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 11:49 AM   #12
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I found the real problem of my difference of color between the Vegas preview and the external monitor
What I found is that after 10 sec of preview on the external monitor the colors going back to the same color of the preview window.
What I need to do now is exit and renter the external monitor every 10-20 sec to get the accurate color.
Is that the way is should be or something is wrong?
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Old October 14th, 2010, 12:27 PM   #13
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What is your external monitor, and how is it hooked up? Like, a DV preview, or a second windows monitor just set to full-screen?
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