A Humble Suggestion for Sony in the FCPX Fiasco aftermath

[Mark Holmes]

This question, posed on another forum about the FCPX disaster, got me thinking:
"Why is it that none of these articles ever mention Vegas as an alternative?? It's always just "going back to Avid" or "switching to Adobe Premiere". Strange isn't it? Is Vegas still not considered a pro software?"

I've thought this, and commented on it, repeatedly. Vegas does what FCPX SHOULD have done - 64-bit, maintaining the feature set of FCP, while moving the editing paradigm into the 21st century, and adding speed and ease-of-use to the platform.

Why don't video professionals consider Vegas as an alternative to the now-dead FCP? Perhaps because the marketing people at Sony don't. There's never been a serious push from Sony to present Vegas as a tool that can be used as a beginning-to-end solution for big-budget projects.

The frustrating thing is, it could be, especially given Sony's resources:
They manufacture high-end video cameras.
They have a professional NLE.
They own movie studios.
They control distribution.

The solution is simple.
Put someone in charge of a team, on one of their next big-budget films, with one goal. Make this film, using Sony products from end-to-end, including shooting on the PMW F3 or the F35, editing on Vegas, distributed through Sony theatrically and on Blu-Ray.

And then promote the hell out of Vegas, the way Apple did with Final Cut with Cold Mountain and Walter Murch.

There may be some struggles. Sony may find that their EDL and OMF tools need some work. They may find that Vegas Pro 10 wasn't quite up to the job. But Vegas Pro 11 will be. Because the experience of using their tool on a job that pushes its limitations result in the tools growth. Just as using Final Cut on Cold Mountain, before Final Cut was ready for such a job, did.

[Gerald Webb]

I applaud the idea, but......
Tried the other day to get 1min of footage cut in 3 places, out of Vegas and into Premiere.....
I googled and googled some more.
You just cant do it.
No OMF,
No EDL,
No AAF,
Why doesent Sony want you to be able to get to other software from Vegas?
Its the main complaint all the pro guys were going nuts about with the new FCX.
You need these tools to give to your colorist and sound people because Id be guessing they aren't using Vegas.

It would be great, but its not going to happen, and a little birdy I know is using Vers 11 Beta and these tools aren't in it either. It would have been a massive opportunity to rush out a new release or update with the tools included, they could of grabbed a massive market share with the FCX debacle, so many guys on those forums are making comments like, Vegas is great, but its not pro, most likely because of the omission of these export tools among a few other things.

[David Jimerson]

Sadly true. Much as I've loved Vegas over the years, it has not been developed into the app it could be. It really is not ready to play in the big leagues, and does seem to get buggier with every new version.

Trying to collaborate with others on other software is a nightmare -- when you can get it to work at all. (You can nearly forget about sending anything to an audio engineer with Pro Tools.)

Interesting that you reference this in terms of the FCPX debacle, because Vegas with Sony has been very similar, only milder and over a longer period of time, so the burn didn't come all at once -- but its development has been a disappointment.

And I won't even start on Sony's flat-out refusal to implement Panasonic P2 support (proper support, not a $200 plugin which nags you every time you start Vegas and still doesn't quite do everything it should). They blame it on Panasonic; Panasonic blames it on Sony -- but the bottom line is, the support isn't there, and it IS everywhere else.

So, the FCP user base's disappointment here is reminiscent of my own, only it's far more intense.

[Chris Barcellos]

I think Sony doesn't want to go there. And it is precisely the same reason that FCP X is leaving that same pro destination. There is no money in it for them, and the small cadre of pro ranks are just a pain to please anyway. so why go there.

[Gene Gajewski]

Vegas and Acid will likely never exist on a Mac. These applications are written directly to Windows API's. For them to go multiplatform, they have to first create multiplatform APIs's for file and GUI. Next they'd have rewrite huge portions of the applications to use those API's. There's always a cost involved in going multiplatform - many of the things done in a multiplatform API can be done far more effciently using native calls. These libraries try to make native calls when possible, but sometimes the semantic differences of the various platform prevent that.

With these issues to consider, given the size of the Mac market (less than a quarter of the PC market), and the competition already there, there's just not much to be gained. Apple is the 800 pound gorilla, and Adobe mops up what's left.

[Edward Troxel]

The simple answer is that Premiere and Avid both have Mac versions. Vegas does not so it's not an option for people running a Mac. (without either purchasing a new PC or using something like BootCamp)

[Mike Calla]

Originally Posted by Gerald Webb

I applaud the idea, but......
Tried the other day to get 1min of footage cut in 3 places, out of Vegas and into Premiere.....
I googled and googled some more.
You just cant do it.
No OMF,
No EDL,
No AAF,
Why doesent Sony want you to be able to get to other software from Vegas?
Its the main complaint all the pro guys were going nuts about with the new FCX.
You need these tools to give to your colorist and sound people because Id be guessing they aren't using Vegas.

Yep! Even moving between Vegas and Sony's own audio program, ACID, is not as easy as it should be! I have my workaround for exporting to DAWs as they are much more forgiving, format -wise than NLEs, but sorry Sony, workarounds are NOT STANDARD!

At least now we do have DPX import/export; ...we have EDLs but it's format is not standard??; and it can read AAF meta data for volume envelopes (big whoop)

In fact its these few items which will keep it from the big boys. I would also like to be able to view multiple bins simultaneously.

Everything else for me is gold. The audio functionality is amazing (thank u sonic foundry), i can do some great side compression, really complex mixes with buses, inserts, really bring mixes to life!!! How i can manipulate events on the time line and in the trimmer is like breathing - so easy, i forget i'm editing sometimes. For me with Cineform and especially uncompressed .avi it flies!!! It's been solid for me knock on wood. I do regularly work with other editors and we basically use Cineform and HDLink...especially for MAC to PC to MAC to PC

[Gerald Webb]

The OP was talking about taking Vegas to the next level, and why the professionals in the industry wont, and cant use it.
I think Chris hit the nail on the head, Sony just isnt interested in going up to that level and having people screaming down the phone line,
"My 100 million dollar movie is on the line here, and if your software doesn't do what its meant to do, George Lucas is going to sue YOU!"
Exaggerated I know, but they really aren't under that much pressure right now,
..... and they prob like it that way.
What is really annoying is that up until Vers 9 you could export AAF, then they took it away, WHY?
see this,
Import Sony Vegas Projects to After Effects | BlueFx

[Mark Holmes]

Originally Posted by Gerald Webb

The OP was talking about taking Vegas to the next level, and why the professionals in the industry wont, and cant use it.
I think Chris hit the nail on the head, Sony just isnt interested in going up to that level and having people screaming down the phone line,
"My 100 million dollar movie is on the line here, and if your software doesn't do what its meant to do, George Lucas is going to sue YOU!"
Exaggerated I know, but they really aren't under that much pressure right now,
..... and they prob like it that way.
What is really annoying is that up until Vers 9 you could export AAF, then they took it away, WHY?
see this,
Import Sony Vegas Projects to After Effects | BlueFx

Wow. I had not even caught that. Why would you take AAF out. Glenn Chan's reply to this thread over on the Sony Forums is worth a read, btw.