help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 at DVinfo.net

Marcus Martell · July 8th, 2011, 02:12 PM

Who could help me in matching the colors of the fx1 and a nikon d5100?
thx

Seth Bloombaum · July 8th, 2011, 04:23 PM

The classic method of matching cameras is very straightforward, though I expect the look of the fx1 and a dSLR will always be a bit different.

First, you need to shoot the same target with both cameras.

Then, with the target footage on two separate tracks, use a color correction filter (I'd start with Color Curves in RGB mode), match the values of the steps of the gray scale between the two clips when viewed on the waveform monitor in luminance mode.

When that is done,

use a color correction filter (maybe CC, maybe Color Curves...), match the angular position and intensity of the color patches when viewed with the vectorscope.

If you're unfamiliar with them, you might google for how to read the waveform and vectorscope... ah, I see that dsclabs.com has a reprint of the tektronix application note that many oldtimers learned from.

For a target, you'd use something from DSC Labs (expensive!), or a TecNec MCS-1 color chart, perhaps there is someone you know who you can borrow a chart from? They're expensive, about $100 to $1000 USD. Most video engineers and repair facilities will have one.

Leslie Wand · July 8th, 2011, 06:12 PM

seth, from what i've seen recently, most (younger) camera(people) don't even white balance! they throw the wb to artificial (or whatever) and simply shoot.

(no offence meant to marcus).

Seth Bloombaum · July 8th, 2011, 06:27 PM

Sad but true!

Some of us are rapidly turning into fossils... but if I hang around long enough, some of those hard-won old skills will be shiny and new again!

Camera matching, for example, where's my tweaker?

Mike Kujbida · July 8th, 2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum

Sad but true!

Some of us are rapidly turning into fossils... but if I hang around long enough, some of those hard-won old skills will be shiny and new again!

Camera matching, for example, where's my tweaker?

Fossils?
I resemble that remark :)
I haven't heard anyone ask for a tweaker in a very long time.
Everything these days is frame-sync locked so no one does Horizontal and Sub Carrier timing on Tektronix waveform and vector monitors anymore.
Reminds me of the days of tube registration (vidicon/saticon/plumbicon tube anyone) which I'm sure you and Leslie remember only too well.
I'm willing to bet that a lot of folks on here don't know the difference between an insert and an assemble edit.
OMG, now I'm really sounding old !!

Leslie Wand · July 8th, 2011, 07:58 PM

bet my wheelchair has bigger tyres than yours does - na-na-na-nah!!!

Mike Kujbida · July 8th, 2011, 10:22 PM

I don't like to brag but this is my wheelchair :)
Bugatti Veyron Top Speed Test

Laurence Kingston · July 8th, 2011, 11:48 PM

Well the first step would be to stick a color correction filter with a cRGB to sRGB preset, since although the D5100 calls it's color "sRGB" it sure looks like "cRGB". That will get you in the ballpark if you use that as a starting point.

Marcus Martell · July 9th, 2011, 01:11 AM

When i shoot with 2 different cameras the first thing i do i White balancement but...this time brought me the footage shot with a DSLR to insert on these shots of 2 years ago....So even if the new one is a small amount of time to add on the timeline i'm trying to achieve a similar result. What i first did was to use the WB plugin then i saved the preset (the withe values) to import on the FX1 old footage but......not that happy!
Now i have to try what you are suggesting me then i'll let you know!

gracias

Laurence Kingston · July 9th, 2011, 01:28 AM

The colorspace on the HDV camera ranges between RGB values of 16 and 235 or sRGB. In spite of the menu setting choice of sRGB or Adobe RGB, the sRGB setting on the D5100 looks like it goes between 0 and 255 like you would expect from cRGB. As a result the D5100 footage appears oversaturated next to HDV footage like your FX1. It will also look oversaturated on a HD TV. I just bought a D5100 last week and the cRGB to sRGB color correction preset fixes the worst of the difference. I'm sure I will end up tweaking it further, but for now, at least I am in the ballpark.

Mike Kujbida · July 9th, 2011, 04:44 AM

Marcus, if you have similar shots from each camera, post screenshots and we'll see if we can make some recommendations.

Laurence Kingston · July 9th, 2011, 07:11 AM

The next day after I got my D5100 I had a local commercial shoot. I brought both my HVR-Z7U (HDV) and my brand new Nikon D5100. There is exactly one shot from the D5100 in the following video. See if you can tell me which shot it is:

http://laurencekingston.com/CinemaMedia/SandwichShoppe

Dale Guthormsen · July 9th, 2011, 08:53 AM

Mike,

the reference to tubes!!

I gotta know, how old arre you!! Thought I was one of the old farts here at a mere 61.

Dale

Leslie Wand · July 10th, 2011, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurence Kingston

The next day after I got my D5100 I had a local commercial shoot. I brought both my HVR-Z7U (HDV) and my brand new Nikon D5100. There is exactly one shot from the D5100 in the following video. See if you can tell me which shot it is:

http://laurencekingston.com/CinemaMedia/SandwichShoppe

i would hazard a guess and say the group shot - but even if i'm wrong, you did an ace job of colour matching.

Marcus Martell · July 10th, 2011, 02:00 AM

Laurence i guess D5100:
the sandwich shop
the sandwiches and food are from d5100

the others with the z7?
WOn or lost?

July 8th, 2011, 02:12 PM	#1
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 Who could help me in matching the colors of the fx1 and a nikon d5100? thx

July 8th, 2011, 04:23 PM	#2
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 The classic method of matching cameras is very straightforward, though I expect the look of the fx1 and a dSLR will always be a bit different. First, you need to shoot the same target with both cameras. Then, with the target footage on two separate tracks, use a color correction filter (I'd start with Color Curves in RGB mode), match the values of the steps of the gray scale between the two clips when viewed on the waveform monitor in luminance mode. When that is done, use a color correction filter (maybe CC, maybe Color Curves...), match the angular position and intensity of the color patches when viewed with the vectorscope. If you're unfamiliar with them, you might google for how to read the waveform and vectorscope... ah, I see that dsclabs.com has a reprint of the tektronix application note that many oldtimers learned from. For a target, you'd use something from DSC Labs (expensive!), or a TecNec MCS-1 color chart, perhaps there is someone you know who you can borrow a chart from? They're expensive, about $100 to $1000 USD. Most video engineers and repair facilities will have one. __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

July 8th, 2011, 06:12 PM	#3
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 seth, from what i've seen recently, most (younger) camera(people) don't even white balance! they throw the wb to artificial (or whatever) and simply shoot. (no offence meant to marcus). __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

July 8th, 2011, 06:27 PM	#4
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 Sad but true! Some of us are rapidly turning into fossils... but if I hang around long enough, some of those hard-won old skills will be shiny and new again! Camera matching, for example, where's my tweaker? __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

July 8th, 2011, 07:58 PM	#6
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 bet my wheelchair has bigger tyres than yours does - na-na-na-nah!!! __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

July 8th, 2011, 10:22 PM	#7
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 I don't like to brag but this is my wheelchair :) Bugatti Veyron Top Speed Test

July 8th, 2011, 11:48 PM	#8
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 Well the first step would be to stick a color correction filter with a cRGB to sRGB preset, since although the D5100 calls it's color "sRGB" it sure looks like "cRGB". That will get you in the ballpark if you use that as a starting point.

July 9th, 2011, 01:11 AM	#9
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 When i shoot with 2 different cameras the first thing i do i White balancement but...this time brought me the footage shot with a DSLR to insert on these shots of 2 years ago....So even if the new one is a small amount of time to add on the timeline i'm trying to achieve a similar result. What i first did was to use the WB plugin then i saved the preset (the withe values) to import on the FX1 old footage but......not that happy! Now i have to try what you are suggesting me then i'll let you know! gracias

July 9th, 2011, 01:28 AM	#10
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 The colorspace on the HDV camera ranges between RGB values of 16 and 235 or sRGB. In spite of the menu setting choice of sRGB or Adobe RGB, the sRGB setting on the D5100 looks like it goes between 0 and 255 like you would expect from cRGB. As a result the D5100 footage appears oversaturated next to HDV footage like your FX1. It will also look oversaturated on a HD TV. I just bought a D5100 last week and the cRGB to sRGB color correction preset fixes the worst of the difference. I'm sure I will end up tweaking it further, but for now, at least I am in the ballpark.

July 9th, 2011, 04:44 AM	#11
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 Marcus, if you have similar shots from each camera, post screenshots and we'll see if we can make some recommendations.

July 9th, 2011, 07:11 AM	#12
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 The next day after I got my D5100 I had a local commercial shoot. I brought both my HVR-Z7U (HDV) and my brand new Nikon D5100. There is exactly one shot from the D5100 in the following video. See if you can tell me which shot it is: http://laurencekingston.com/CinemaMedia/SandwichShoppe

July 9th, 2011, 08:53 AM	#13
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 Mike, the reference to tubes!! I gotta know, how old arre you!! Thought I was one of the old farts here at a mere 61. Dale __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

July 10th, 2011, 02:00 AM	#15
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Re: help matching colrs of Sony fx1 and Nikon d5100 Laurence i guess D5100: the sandwich shop the sandwiches and food are from d5100 the others with the z7? WOn or lost?