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Old July 14th, 2011, 05:43 PM   #1
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HD I/O for Vegas 10

Greetings.

What are some of you using as an I/O interface for Vegas? It seems there is no support from Matrox (does the MXO2 work?). I'm looking for a way to use an external LCD monitor for color grading. I hooked an LCD tv to the HDMI output on my Nvidia graphics card, but the quality seemed no different than what my PC monitor is showing. When the results are burned to blu-ray, the picture is a lot different when viewed on an actual tv.

Is there a solution from Blackmagic that will work? I searched the forums, but doesn't seem like many people are using these.

Thanks.

Craig
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Old July 15th, 2011, 10:19 AM   #2
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

Craig, have you tried playing on different TVs? I would try that first, if you haven't yet.

In my case, I found my bluray discs looked too dark upon playback on my TV, and I realized my monitor was too bright too begin with. I lowered the brightness level on my monitor and all was well. I had lowered the brightness on my images unnecessarily because I was seeing them wrong and didn't know it.

You might also calibrate your monitor, though I've never done it.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 05:03 PM   #3
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

You can buy a Blackmagic Studio card for $695 and then ( here is where it gets expensive...) a studio reference monitor over HDMI or SDI.
Blackmagic Design: Models

Then you would know that *your* colors are right and your client is wrong ;)

You can calibrate your TV with reference bars and feed it HDMI from the Decklink card, but there is no guarantee that is is actually the "right" levels on a consumer TV, they are most likely not calibrated against broadcast standards.

We use a Sony Reference monitor, viewing angle is not very good, so I wouldn't recommend it.
Sony : BVM-L231 (BVML231) : Product Overview : Other

Ikegami is probably better value for money
Welcome to Ikegami USA Web Page
The HLM-1750WR seems a good model.

/magnus

Note: color grading and mastering for blueray - get ready for some serious pain, it is far from trivial.
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Last edited by Magnus Helander; July 15th, 2011 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Added words of wisdom
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Old July 15th, 2011, 11:02 PM   #4
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

Hi Jeff.

You're right about the image being too dark. Are you grading with a PC monitor? I am, and I keep burning test discs and playing them on tv's to find a happy medium. Looks like I'll finally have to pull the trigger
and get a Spyder to set up my monitor.

Magnus, is the BM Studio card software specific or will it work with all NLE's? As for a secondary monitor, I've been keeping an eye out for a low mileage BVM CRT on ebay for grading. This might be a bit misguided, but I figured CRT would still give me the best results. You hit the nail on the head with regards to LCD and the viewing angle issue. I had considered going with a Panny Plasma, but they're all pretty big. Sony has a new line of OLED monitors that might be worth a look. Any thoughts?


Sony Product Detail Page PVM1741
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Old July 15th, 2011, 11:53 PM   #5
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

You may be experiencing a known Vegas bug that sends full swing levels through the 8-bit image rendering path to encoders that expect studio swing levels. One solution is to switch to 32-bit float rendering. Another option is to add Sony Color Corrector to the Output FX with the setting Computer RGB to Studio RGB to explicitly convert the levels just before rendering.

Colors change after Rendering

Last edited by Eric Olson; July 16th, 2011 at 12:52 AM.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 04:39 AM   #6
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

i presume people calibrate their monitors BEFORE posting about colour shifts etc!?

i use a spyder on my ips panels every month (NOT that they change, but better safe than sorry), and initially test burn with bars at the head so i can test on the two lcd at home and on my friends huge plasma (home theatre) screen, where he's let me program a 'standard' preset instead of the myriad 'looks' that it has built in.....

that said, wtf my clients are viewing it on is anyone's guess!!!!
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Old July 16th, 2011, 07:10 AM   #7
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Kovatch View Post
Magnus, is the BM Studio card software specific or will it work with all NLE's?
As for a secondary monitor, I've been keeping an eye out for a low mileage BVM CRT on ebay for grading. [..] Sony has a new line of OLED monitors that might be worth a look. Any thoughts?
The BM studio card are 'industry standard' and will work with most if not all NLE's.
The alternative is AJA Kona series KONA - AJA Video Systems
Same but different. I'm a BM guy so I can't talk about AJA cards, but the seem to work.

A used CRT sounds like a very good choice, you will have to pay a ridiculous amount of money to get the same image quality from a LCD/LED. Heavy and bulky and use a lot of power, that's all.
BM Studio card has the analogue outputs - R-Y, B-Y and Y- on the whip.

For OLED my 'good old boys' with 30 yrs in the broadcast industry whom I consult with when things look funny (I'm a geek myself) said "don't trust it, yet", there's algae or something organic in there. As i understand it they have not proven themselves for broadcast work, yet. The LED tv's at work have an amazing brilliance and black, but same problem as all consumer screens, they are not calibrated against broadcast standard color spaces and gamma curves, so you don't really know what you're looking at.

/magnus
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Old July 16th, 2011, 04:14 PM   #8
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

[QUOTE=Eric Olson;1667574]You may be experiencing a known Vegas bug that sends full swing levels through the 8-bit image rendering path to encoders that expect studio swing levels. One solution is to switch to 32-bit float rendering. Another option is to add Sony Color Corrector to the Output FX with the setting Computer RGB to Studio RGB to explicitly convert the levels just before rendering.



Thanks for the link. It was a good read. I'll give both of those things a try.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 07:18 PM   #9
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

So I know this has been asked before, but this seems like the right thread to ask again.
With a Blackmagic Intensity card you have the option to output through HDMI or Component, to an external monitor, which can also be accessed in Vegas - Options - Preview device - Device - Blackmagic Design Decklink..
So the question is,
If I connect an LCD TV (or, would an old CRT be better?) and select it in Vegas as a preview monitor through the Blackmagic card, and choose -Use color management - Studio 16-235,
am I any better off than doing the same with my second LCD Windows monitor?
Or in a nutshell,
What is the simplest way to get an accurate view of what the average person will see on their DVD and TV, assuming that most people dont use a Spyder to calibrate their TV and their settings are prob out of the box?
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Old July 17th, 2011, 11:05 PM   #10
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

This is what I'm hoping to find out soon. As soon as I can afford a BM card. :(

My concern is how much the video card in the computer alters the quality of the video preview. It's still an HDMI interface, but I'm not sure how much the signal varies vs. the output from an Intensity pro.
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Old July 19th, 2011, 12:05 AM   #11
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

I think the colors on a 4:3 aspect ratio DVD should be tuned for playback on tube televisions and the colors on a 16:9 aspect ratio DVD should be tuned for playback on LCD televisions. How to reasonably do this is beyond me, but red seems more red on tube televisions. Are there guidelines that explain what color differences to expect between typical consumer CRT and LCD televisions?
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Old July 19th, 2011, 07:20 AM   #12
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

Why? I watch my 4:3 DVDs on LCD TVs!
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Old July 19th, 2011, 11:37 AM   #13
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

I've found plasma sest the most difficult to grade for. At least when it comes to contrast. If things aren't just right, the blacks get crushed. It seems LCD sets are more forgiving.
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Old July 19th, 2011, 12:15 PM   #14
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Re: HD I/O for Vegas 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Olson View Post
I think the colors on a 4:3 aspect ratio DVD should be tuned for playback on tube televisions and the colors on a 16:9 aspect ratio DVD should be tuned for playback on LCD televisions. How to reasonably do this is beyond me, but red seems more red on tube televisions. Are there guidelines that explain what color differences to expect between typical consumer CRT and LCD televisions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Troxel View Post
Why? I watch my 4:3 DVDs on LCD TVs!
I'm with Mr. Troxel on this one. The bottom line is tube TV's are rapidly going away. And I'm saying that as someone whose TV is a 27" flatscreen Sony Trinitron....it's a great standard def. TV but in this day and age it is also an overweight dinosaur.
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