aspect ratio problem

Ron German · October 21st, 2011, 07:26 PM

I got this from an official support person from Cineform: "All problems about CineForm files not playing in Vegas 11, need to go to Sony. At this point Sony does their own integration of the CineForm codec and there's nothing we can do to troubleshoot issues in their new NLE".

So I need a help to this issue: In a project with Sony MXF 1920X1080 23,97p clips and Cineform`s Neo 1440X1080 23,97p (converted from HDV) clips in a 1920X1080 23,97p project, the MXF clips play fine, but the Cineform clips are distorted, probably because an aspect ratio problem. With Vegas 9.e and 10, this bug doesn`t show up (despite with Vegas Pro 10 the project tend to crash when I try to work with it).

When I disable "mantain aspect ratio" in Properties of a Cineform`s Neo clip, it becomes correct.

Vegas simply shouldn`t behave like this and I can`t disable "mantain aspect ratio" of more than 500 Neo clips of my project to render it.

I attached a screen displaying in the source window a MXF frame and a Cineform frame in the timeline window.

Anyone can help?

Ron German · October 22nd, 2011, 05:27 AM

54 views and no response. It`s difficult to believe this is happening only with me...

Edward Troxel · October 22nd, 2011, 02:46 PM

You realize you can use a script to modify them all in one fell swoop!

Ron German · October 22nd, 2011, 05:17 PM

Thank you Edward, but I don`t realize it because I never used a script before and don`t know how to do it.
Moreover, why the same Neo clip plays normaly (regarding aspect ratio) with versions 9 and 10 and don`t play correctly with version 11?

Dror Levi · October 22nd, 2011, 06:54 PM

you are not alone, I have exactly the same problem.

Jeff Harper · October 23rd, 2011, 01:45 AM

I have had this issue with 16X9 clips created with Cineform and was told by someone that the clips do not contain the correct header information which is a Cineform issue. This only for me happens with HD clips converted to 16X9 SD clips. To fix it in Vegas 9 you change the clip properties on a single clip in the project media window, etc and then save the profile, etc, and problem solved, but in Vegas 10 this will not work, profile cannot be saved.

I have asked about this in the Cineform showcase repeatedly and NEVER got a satisfactory answer. It was recommended to convert to 1280X720 instead and then crop the footage on the timeline of the project.

Very unhappy with this aspect of Cineform.

Ron German · October 23rd, 2011, 06:48 AM

So now this is in Sony hands only, regarding Vegas Pro 11, according to Cineform representative.

Jeff Harper · October 23rd, 2011, 11:08 AM

So Edward, you say you have a script, it is part of Excalibur, correct? I went down this road a while ago, as you may recall, and found the solution to fixing the aspect ratio of Cineform files within Vegas, which either you or someone else told me about (it might have been Jim Snow).

Anyway, the script you mention above, tell us more please, again?

David Jimerson · October 23rd, 2011, 11:13 AM

It is most likely a pixel aspect ratio problem. Check the clips -- is the PAR 1.000? It needs to be 1.333.

This is an AVI issue which has been problematic in Vegas.

Ron German · October 23rd, 2011, 11:32 AM

I never saw this pixel aspect ratio issue before (playng AVI Neo with Vegas software), just with Vegas 11.

Edward Troxel · October 23rd, 2011, 02:33 PM

The solution I gave you before was probably mentioned above by changing the properties and saving the change. If that is not working now, I don't know why. However, yes Excalibur can change the PAR of all your selected events at the push of a button.

Jeff Harper · October 23rd, 2011, 03:25 PM

Edward, it still works on an individual clip, but when you go to save the PAR setting by clicking on the "Save" button under "Stream Properties" it won't take, meaning you have to go and change the PAR on ever single clip on the timeline. For a wedding with hundreds of clips, not good.

Before, in Vegas 9, I could save the setting and then Vegas remembered it and all future clips in all future projects were displayed correctly.

John Cline · October 23rd, 2011, 04:09 PM

With the exception of DV widescreen files, there has never been a provision in the header of an AVI file to store aspect ratio information. MXF, AVC, and MPEG2 files do store this information. Vegas assumes that NTSC 720x480 AVI files are .9091 and 1920x1080 or 1280x720 have a PAR of 1.0. If it's a 720x480 widescreen AVI file (that isn't in the DV format) then you will have to manually tell it that the file has a PAR of 1.2121. Perhaps Vegas should assume that 1440x1080 AVI files have a PAR of 1.333.

October 21st, 2011, 07:26 PM	#1
Ron German Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brasil Posts: 304	aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 I got this from an official support person from Cineform: "All problems about CineForm files not playing in Vegas 11, need to go to Sony. At this point Sony does their own integration of the CineForm codec and there's nothing we can do to troubleshoot issues in their new NLE". So I need a help to this issue: In a project with Sony MXF 1920X1080 23,97p clips and Cineform`s Neo 1440X1080 23,97p (converted from HDV) clips in a 1920X1080 23,97p project, the MXF clips play fine, but the Cineform clips are distorted, probably because an aspect ratio problem. With Vegas 9.e and 10, this bug doesn`t show up (despite with Vegas Pro 10 the project tend to crash when I try to work with it). When I disable "mantain aspect ratio" in Properties of a Cineform`s Neo clip, it becomes correct. Vegas simply shouldn`t behave like this and I can`t disable "mantain aspect ratio" of more than 500 Neo clips of my project to render it. I attached a screen displaying in the source window a MXF frame and a Cineform frame in the timeline window. Anyone can help? Attached Thumbnails

October 22nd, 2011, 05:27 AM	#2
Ron German Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brasil Posts: 304	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 54 views and no response. It`s difficult to believe this is happening only with me...

October 22nd, 2011, 02:46 PM	#3
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 You realize you can use a script to modify them all in one fell swoop! __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

October 22nd, 2011, 05:17 PM	#4
Ron German Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brasil Posts: 304	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 Thank you Edward, but I don`t realize it because I never used a script before and don`t know how to do it. Moreover, why the same Neo clip plays normaly (regarding aspect ratio) with versions 9 and 10 and don`t play correctly with version 11?

October 22nd, 2011, 06:54 PM	#5
Dror Levi Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pembroke Pines FL Posts: 331	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 you are not alone, I have exactly the same problem. __________________ www.nostalgicFrames.com

October 23rd, 2011, 01:45 AM	#6
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 I have had this issue with 16X9 clips created with Cineform and was told by someone that the clips do not contain the correct header information which is a Cineform issue. This only for me happens with HD clips converted to 16X9 SD clips. To fix it in Vegas 9 you change the clip properties on a single clip in the project media window, etc and then save the profile, etc, and problem solved, but in Vegas 10 this will not work, profile cannot be saved. I have asked about this in the Cineform showcase repeatedly and NEVER got a satisfactory answer. It was recommended to convert to 1280X720 instead and then crop the footage on the timeline of the project. Very unhappy with this aspect of Cineform. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

October 23rd, 2011, 06:48 AM	#7
Ron German Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brasil Posts: 304	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 So now this is in Sony hands only, regarding Vegas Pro 11, according to Cineform representative.

October 23rd, 2011, 11:08 AM	#8
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 So Edward, you say you have a script, it is part of Excalibur, correct? I went down this road a while ago, as you may recall, and found the solution to fixing the aspect ratio of Cineform files within Vegas, which either you or someone else told me about (it might have been Jim Snow). Anyway, the script you mention above, tell us more please, again? __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

October 23rd, 2011, 11:13 AM	#9
David Jimerson Jubal 28 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 872	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 It is most likely a pixel aspect ratio problem. Check the clips -- is the PAR 1.000? It needs to be 1.333. This is an AVI issue which has been problematic in Vegas. __________________ www.wrightsvillebeachstudios.com

October 23rd, 2011, 11:32 AM	#10
Ron German Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brasil Posts: 304	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 I never saw this pixel aspect ratio issue before (playng AVI Neo with Vegas software), just with Vegas 11.

October 23rd, 2011, 02:33 PM	#11
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 The solution I gave you before was probably mentioned above by changing the properties and saving the change. If that is not working now, I don't know why. However, yes Excalibur can change the PAR of all your selected events at the push of a button. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

October 23rd, 2011, 03:25 PM	#12
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 Edward, it still works on an individual clip, but when you go to save the PAR setting by clicking on the "Save" button under "Stream Properties" it won't take, meaning you have to go and change the PAR on ever single clip on the timeline. For a wedding with hundreds of clips, not good. Before, in Vegas 9, I could save the setting and then Vegas remembered it and all future clips in all future projects were displayed correctly. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

October 23rd, 2011, 04:09 PM	#13
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	Re: aspect ratio problem - Vegas Pro 11 With the exception of DV widescreen files, there has never been a provision in the header of an AVI file to store aspect ratio information. MXF, AVC, and MPEG2 files do store this information. Vegas assumes that NTSC 720x480 AVI files are .9091 and 1920x1080 or 1280x720 have a PAR of 1.0. If it's a 720x480 widescreen AVI file (that isn't in the DV format) then you will have to manually tell it that the file has a PAR of 1.2121. Perhaps Vegas should assume that 1440x1080 AVI files have a PAR of 1.333.