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Old November 6th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #1
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How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

I set up a time line with 1080p30 in Vegas Pro 11. What I have is a bunch of clips that are 1080p60 and a couple clips that are 1080p30 and when I rendered them I used main concept mp4 at hd1080 which is 1080p30. The 1080p60 clips are choppy and slow on play back after they were rendered. I didn't even try to add my 1080i60 clips yet.

What is the best way to mix in VP11. For 1080p60 with 1080p30. And 1080p60 with 1080i60. Also 1080i60 with 1080p30.

I'm trying to publish to the Internet either with YouTube or Vimeo and then to a DVD avchd and maybe bluray but they don't have bd players.

Any suggestion would be great.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 03:57 PM   #2
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Here's what I'd do (without testing, so maybe some things might have to be "tweaked").

1) Set your Project Properties to 1920x1080 59.94 fps Progressive
2) Right click on your 30p & 60i clips and "Disable Resample"
3) Render to 30p

I think that will work. Pls report back.

...Jerry

Edit: Okay, I just made a test. The key is to make sure you set up your project to match the 59.94 footage. It looks like the "disable resample" is not necessary (although it doesn't hurt).

Last edited by Jerry Amende; November 6th, 2011 at 04:36 PM.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 04:33 PM   #3
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Neither the Youtube nor the Vimeo published clips are 60p. The max they offer is 30p (except of Vimeo's special download feature) and if you upload video with a higher frame rate it will be downgraded to 30p. So there is not much use in rendering 60p for such kind of web videos.

Edit:
Oops, just see you already rendering to 30p not 60p.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 04:39 PM   #4
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Whoops! Looks like we posted at the same time. Again, the key is use "Match Media Settings" to set your project properties to 60p. Then render to 30p (which is accepted by YouTube).

...Jerry
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Old November 6th, 2011, 04:59 PM   #5
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Thanks for all the help. I changed the setting from the timeline from 30p to 60p and disabled resampling for my 30p clips and it's now rendering at 1080p30 .mp4 it's got an hour to go. I'm doing this project on a laptop and my desktop is much quicker. I tried to copy all my subclips out of media project to put them in a flash drive but couldn't figure out how to find them ??? I'll look deeper into this so I can work on projects with both desk and laptop. Thanks. Gerry
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Old November 6th, 2011, 05:10 PM   #6
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald OConnor View Post
I tried to copy all my subclips out of media project to put them in a flash drive but couldn't figure out how to find them ???
Here's what I'd do... Save As->Copy Media with Project and point that at your USB drive.

...Jerry
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Old November 6th, 2011, 07:40 PM   #7
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Thanks again I was able to find the settings but for some reason I lost the subclips in the media folder when I went to save them in my project on the USB drive. No problem I can redo the subclips later. Good news it plays smooth and I made some DVDs and they played great. Now I'll bring the video to my fathers in the AM my Internet stinks in the sticks and it's a gigabyte to upload to YouTube. In the city it will be quick.
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Old November 14th, 2011, 10:23 PM   #8
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

I hope I'm not taking this thread in the wrong direction but reading this has caused me to go back to basics. When I was doing only SD video, it was easy. Now with HD video and all its variants, I'm finding a need to clarify some things.

In particular, I'm trying to understand the interrelationship between the format of the video I have in my project (often more than one), the project settings and the final render settings. I looked at the Vegas Help file and all it does is explain what each setting means. I'm looking more for how they interact with each other and my video. Douglas Spotted Eagle's Vegas Pro 9 book doesn't help either.

If anyone can explain this or, better yet, has a link to some tutorials that discuss this, I would appreciate hearing from you. I've done some experiments but there are so many settings and so many HD formats that I can't be sure I can grasp what might be going on.

I'm running Vegas Pro 11.

Many thanks.

D
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Old November 15th, 2011, 01:14 AM   #9
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Hi

I think the best option is to set the project properties to the same as your output, or alternatively the same as the majority of your inputs. If you press the film icon top right of the project properties window you can point it at your original video files and it will set the project to match those.

When you render I think the render settings over-ride the project settings, but entirely sure.

Regards

Phil
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Old November 15th, 2011, 08:23 AM   #10
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

imho (and experience), you're best off if you use the "Match Media Settings" wizard to match your project properties to your source footage. Occasionally, when you need to mix footage on the timeline you can improve your render by right-clicking on the mis-matched video event and "Disable Resample". Rarely, I'll create a small project just to render the oddball clips to the major project media properites (using a high quality intermediate like Avid DNxHD or Sony MXF).

Vegas actually does a pretty good job of rendering to video that does not match the Project Properites, providing:

1) Video Rendering Quality is set to "Best"
2) When deinterlacing or resizing interlaced footage, a Deinterlace method is selected.
3) The project does not contain stabilized events.

Hope this helps!
...Jerry
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Old November 15th, 2011, 09:48 AM   #11
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

If you're going to render to 30p, you might as well set the project properties to 30p. Then you'll see what the render will look like when you play back the timeline.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 04:20 PM   #12
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Great. That's the kind of info I was looking for.

@David, @Jerry: Great. Those are the kinds of suggestions I'm looking for.

@Phil: Your comment about setting project properties to either the source format or the desired output format leaves me puzzled. I guess my puzzlement reflects my desire to understand better exactly how Vegas uses those settings. I know (I think!) it doesn't use them to determine how to render. That's specified by the template you choose at render time. And obviously you can render to some format other than the source video.

So I'm wondering if it only uses the project properties to decide how to preview the video? That can't be. There's just way too many settings to be just that. But those settings certainly do affect the preview so there is some tie in. Then again there must be a reason for all those other settings (pixel format, full resolution rendering quality, motion blur type, etc.) beyond preview. And, of course, mixing different video formats and stills just complicates things further.

I was hoping someone had written a tutorial or something. But your explanations give me something to go on. I guess more experiments are in order.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 04:45 PM   #13
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Dennis,

This doesn't say much more than I've already said this thread, but might be of interest: Sony Vegas - Using "Match Media Settings" - YouTube

...Jerry
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Old November 16th, 2011, 03:07 PM   #14
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Thanks, Jerry. I'll check it out.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 06:12 PM   #15
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Re: How to render 1080p60 with 1080p30 clips in VP11

Some tips/ideas:

Set all your clips to Disable Resample, this will avoid ghosting/blended frames when there are differences between project, source, and rendered fps.

Set project properties to the match the clips with the highest resolution/framerate in your project. This will ensure that any efx, compositing etc will benefit from every pixel of every frame available. (for example, for twixtor to use all 60p frames to analyze motion, the project needs to be set at 60p, if it's at 30p then it will only use every other frame(or you could just half the playback rate and work on the clip from there)

Work and render from the Higher framerate, but check your work in Best/Full mode at the desired render output res/framerate, this will show if there are any problems with blended frames interlacing etc. Or you could nest your project on the timeline of project that matches the desired output res/framerate (at Best/Full)

I haven't messed around with mixing progressive/interlaced footage much, but if you have interlaced footage anywhere in the project I believe you need to select a deinterlace method in the project properties, and it should not harm any progressive source footage.

Any corrections, additions etc are welcome, hope this helps!!
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