24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline at DVinfo.net

Jeff Harper · November 19th, 2011, 09:18 AM

Shot a wedding and reception in 24p yesterday, but my fourth camera 24p mode is in a 60i wrapper. Is it best to convert this camera's footage and to remove pulldown before editing? To be clear, the three other cams are plain 24p, no wrapper.

It seems obvious footage needs converted, but just thought I'd double check before doing it.

Dale Guthormsen · November 19th, 2011, 11:48 AM

Jeff,

Yes, I would convert first.

Just a question, when you shoot the dance do you shoot it in 24 P as well? I know its a bit off the topic but not totally if you get wherre I am coming from with that.

Jeff Harper · November 19th, 2011, 12:05 PM

Hi Dale, thanks, I will convert it.

On 24p, overall, I'm torn. On one level, it does look nice, but it is a very soft look. Yesterday was the first time I'd ever shot in 24p. It seemed harder to focus, because it is softer, and it drove me crazy.

I have never been a fan of soft looking video, but I admit when done properly 24p looks great.

I did shoot the dance in 24p, and it looked pretty darned good. I synced up the footage this morning, and I got pretty pumped.

The biggest issue I had was walking around handheld, things get blurry very quickly if you're not careful, and then trying to focus handheld with the soft looking footage, it was maddening. Sometimes I'd get the shot, but not be certain I had it, and refocused several times, messing up the shot. This happened a lot.

The jitter that I noticed, or whatever you call it that 24p does, really only seemed to be an issue as a result of camera movement. When my camera was still, the action seemed fine. Coming from 720 60p background, it wasn't the same, but the footage looked so good I'm not sure I care.

I'm worried when converted to DVD it will really look soft, and that bothers me a lot. For the web it should look great.

David Jimerson · November 19th, 2011, 01:36 PM

Jeff, it depends on what made that 60i wrapper.

If it's DV, you've got no worries. Vegas will remove the pulldown automatically. Just drop it on a 24p timeline.

If it's something else, then it will depend on what it is, and whether the pulldown is 2:3 or 2:3:3:2. Vegas may or may not be able to remove the pulldown.

So, what camera did this come from, and how was it shot?

The last thing you want to do, though, is use conventional deinterlacing to "convert" the 24p-over-60i into 24p. You want to remove the pulldown, and remove it properly. If you just "convert" it, as if it's normal 60i, it'll look terrible.

Jeff Harper · November 19th, 2011, 02:25 PM

David, it's from a GH1. I have software to remove pulldown, I think HDLink will do that, but if it's as you say, that's even better.

I just put some of it on a timeline shows up as upper field first. When I render a project with the other footage, won't I need to check "add 2-3 pulldown"? And when I do what about the other three cameras that are not wrapped?

Dylan Tobias · December 5th, 2011, 01:11 PM

Are you aware of the gh1 hack that allows for native 24p without any wrapping anymore? After hacking your gh1 you never have to think about all the trans coding, hdlink, pulldown, or whatever bla bla it is called ever again. The name for it is "Blackout - Powell Native 24p Patch"

GH1 Firmware Hack FAQ - Personal View Talks

Jeff Harper · December 5th, 2011, 01:15 PM

Thanks, but unless something's changed only older GH1s are hackable. Newer ones such as mine are not, unless I'm mistaken.

Dylan Tobias · December 5th, 2011, 01:32 PM

Yes, the newer ones are now hackable. I purchased two of the new ones in May, they are referred to by vitali as gh17s referring the updated number to the previously "unhackable" gh1s. If you go to the link you will see, the hack for the new previously "unhackable" gh1s has been available for over 6 months now.

Jeff Harper · December 5th, 2011, 02:14 PM

Too bad I found out now, I'm trying to get rid of mine at this point.

Mike Feggans · December 6th, 2011, 01:01 PM

Hey Jeff, have you sold your GH1? I might be in the market to buy one. I'm in Dayton.

Jeff Harper · December 6th, 2011, 01:37 PM

Mike it's still here, but the SD card is no longer part of the deal, but shouldn't matter, the 5 batteries make it a sweet deal, IMO.

See here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/private-...ale-650-a.html

November 19th, 2011, 09:18 AM	#1
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline Shot a wedding and reception in 24p yesterday, but my fourth camera 24p mode is in a 60i wrapper. Is it best to convert this camera's footage and to remove pulldown before editing? To be clear, the three other cams are plain 24p, no wrapper. It seems obvious footage needs converted, but just thought I'd double check before doing it. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

November 19th, 2011, 11:48 AM	#2
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Re: 24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline Jeff, Yes, I would convert first. Just a question, when you shoot the dance do you shoot it in 24 P as well? I know its a bit off the topic but not totally if you get wherre I am coming from with that. __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

November 19th, 2011, 12:05 PM	#3
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: 24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline Hi Dale, thanks, I will convert it. On 24p, overall, I'm torn. On one level, it does look nice, but it is a very soft look. Yesterday was the first time I'd ever shot in 24p. It seemed harder to focus, because it is softer, and it drove me crazy. I have never been a fan of soft looking video, but I admit when done properly 24p looks great. I did shoot the dance in 24p, and it looked pretty darned good. I synced up the footage this morning, and I got pretty pumped. The biggest issue I had was walking around handheld, things get blurry very quickly if you're not careful, and then trying to focus handheld with the soft looking footage, it was maddening. Sometimes I'd get the shot, but not be certain I had it, and refocused several times, messing up the shot. This happened a lot. The jitter that I noticed, or whatever you call it that 24p does, really only seemed to be an issue as a result of camera movement. When my camera was still, the action seemed fine. Coming from 720 60p background, it wasn't the same, but the footage looked so good I'm not sure I care. I'm worried when converted to DVD it will really look soft, and that bothers me a lot. For the web it should look great. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

November 19th, 2011, 01:36 PM	#4
David Jimerson Jubal 28 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 872	Re: 24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline Jeff, it depends on what made that 60i wrapper. If it's DV, you've got no worries. Vegas will remove the pulldown automatically. Just drop it on a 24p timeline. If it's something else, then it will depend on what it is, and whether the pulldown is 2:3 or 2:3:3:2. Vegas may or may not be able to remove the pulldown. So, what camera did this come from, and how was it shot? The last thing you want to do, though, is use conventional deinterlacing to "convert" the 24p-over-60i into 24p. You want to remove the pulldown, and remove it properly. If you just "convert" it, as if it's normal 60i, it'll look terrible. __________________ www.wrightsvillebeachstudios.com

November 19th, 2011, 02:25 PM	#5
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: 24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline David, it's from a GH1. I have software to remove pulldown, I think HDLink will do that, but if it's as you say, that's even better. I just put some of it on a timeline shows up as upper field first. When I render a project with the other footage, won't I need to check "add 2-3 pulldown"? And when I do what about the other three cameras that are not wrapped? __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

December 5th, 2011, 01:11 PM	#6
Dylan Tobias Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 71	Re: 24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline Are you aware of the gh1 hack that allows for native 24p without any wrapping anymore? After hacking your gh1 you never have to think about all the trans coding, hdlink, pulldown, or whatever bla bla it is called ever again. The name for it is "Blackout - Powell Native 24p Patch" GH1 Firmware Hack FAQ - Personal View Talks

December 5th, 2011, 01:15 PM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: 24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline Thanks, but unless something's changed only older GH1s are hackable. Newer ones such as mine are not, unless I'm mistaken. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

December 5th, 2011, 01:32 PM	#8
Dylan Tobias Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 71	Re: 24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline Yes, the newer ones are now hackable. I purchased two of the new ones in May, they are referred to by vitali as gh17s referring the updated number to the previously "unhackable" gh1s. If you go to the link you will see, the hack for the new previously "unhackable" gh1s has been available for over 6 months now.

December 5th, 2011, 02:14 PM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: 24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline Too bad I found out now, I'm trying to get rid of mine at this point. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

December 6th, 2011, 01:01 PM	#10
Mike Feggans New Boot Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Dayton, Oh Posts: 20	Re: 24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline Hey Jeff, have you sold your GH1? I might be in the market to buy one. I'm in Dayton. __________________ Dayton, Oh: 50 State Media Group, LLC http://vimeo.com/thadoubleo http://ThaDoubleO.com Ohios #1 Hip-Hop Site

December 6th, 2011, 01:37 PM	#11
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: 24p and 24p interlaced, how to treat on timeline Mike it's still here, but the SD card is no longer part of the deal, but shouldn't matter, the 5 batteries make it a sweet deal, IMO. See here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/private-...ale-650-a.html __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."