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Old August 2nd, 2012, 03:57 PM   #16
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

Hi

On DVD you can't go higher than around 18Mbits/sec, this is because DVD's can't be read faster than that in Blu-ray players to guarantee they will work without stuttering and stopping.

Not sure where DVD Architect gets it 28MBit/sec from?

Blu-ray is only Blu-ray when on a Blu-ray disc.

There is a bug with DVD Architect anyway where it crashes on preparing the footage when it is interlaced and produced by x264.

I'd recommend using MultiAVCHD (a google will find it) which is free and and is more accepting of video without wanting to re-encode it.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Phil
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Old August 6th, 2012, 01:09 PM   #17
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

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Originally Posted by Phil Lee View Post
Hi

On DVD you can't go higher than around 18Mbits/sec, this is because DVD's can't be read faster than that in Blu-ray players to guarantee they will work without stuttering and stopping.

Not sure where DVD Architect gets it 28MBit/sec from?

Blu-ray is only Blu-ray when on a Blu-ray disc.

There is a bug with DVD Architect anyway where it crashes on preparing the footage when it is interlaced and produced by x264.

I'd recommend using MultiAVCHD (a google will find it) which is free and and is more accepting of video without wanting to re-encode it.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Phil
Thanks for your help. I will look into MultiAVCHD. In the past I have burned BD projects onto a standard DVD-R. The resulting disc contains a BDMV file structure, same as on a "real" BD, and my set top bluray player can play it. I used DVD Architect to author and burn. As you stated, it is very possible that the bitrate is 18 or below, therefore DVD Architect was able to author it.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 08:16 AM   #18
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

Phil, I may be over-cautious but when I tried to download your first link I got this message :

"This item might not exist or is no longer available
This item might have been deleted, expired, or you might not have permission to view it. Contact the owner of this item for more information."

After a bit more fiddling around it appeared to be hijacked by "sendspace.com" - Is this legit ?

RonC.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 01:25 PM   #19
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

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Originally Posted by Ron Cooper View Post
it appeared to be hijacked by "sendspace.com" - Is this legit?
The correct site for multiAVCHD is

::: multiAVCHD home :::

This program is a free but closed source work of a single author that has not been updated for more than two years. The author apparently wrote the program by reverse engineering the AVCHD file catalogue. MultiAVCHD makes use of the multiplexing program tsMuxeR which was also released as free but closed source by smartlabs.

SmartLabs

Smartlabs removed tsMuxeR from their public downloads a couple years ago, about the same time that multiAVCHD stopped being updated.

The main advantage of x264 is its professional quality and efficiency. While multiAVCHD can be used to master an AVCHD or blu-ray disk from x264 output, I would not recommend it for professional use. Moreover, for casual use I would recommend the standard Vegas encoders and DVD Architect. It is surprising that open source blu-ray mastering tools don't exist which are similar in quality to the open source x264 encoder. I think this thread is an important one, because there is a great need to come up with a good way to master AVCHD and blu-ray disks from x264 output.

Last edited by Eric Olson; August 7th, 2012 at 09:04 PM.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 08:05 PM   #20
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

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Originally Posted by Eric Olson View Post
for casual use I would recommend the standard Vegas encoders and DVD Architect.
Under Custom Template, Field Order: should I select: None (progressive scan), or Upper Field First, or Lower Field First? My source is 1920 x 1080i, 29.xx fps.
Thank you,
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Old August 7th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #21
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

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Originally Posted by Norris Combs View Post
Under Custom Template, Field Order: should I select: None (progressive scan), or Upper Field First, or Lower Field First? My source is 1920 x 1080i, 29.xx fps.
Almost always 1080i is upper field first.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 02:46 PM   #22
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Olson View Post
Smartlabs removed tsMuxeR from their public downloads a couple years ago, about the same time that multiAVCHD stopped being updated.

The main advantage of x264 is its professional quality and efficiency. While multiAVCHD can be used to master an AVCHD or blu-ray disk from x264 output, I would not recommend it for professional use. Moreover, for casual use I would recommend the standard Vegas encoders and DVD Architect. It is surprising that open source blu-ray mastering tools don't exist which are similar in quality to the open source x264 encoder. I think this thread is an important one, because there is a great need to come up with a good way to master AVCHD and blu-ray disks from x264 output.
Any Blu-ray project that you burn yourself onto BD-R/RE media, cannot be reproduced or added by you the Blu-ray logo except the one already on the media. Technically, that's enough argument that no project you burn onto writable media is Blu-ray video just because the media is. You don't get a license to call it that. You are licensed to call it Blu-ray playable or Blu-ray data, or to indicate that it is playable on Blu-ray equipment. With that in mind, there is no reason to avoid using multiAVCHD and TSmuxeR in your professional collaborations burned onto Blu-ray writable disks.

The reason even the casual user benefits by using multiAVCHD and TSmuxeR is the output quality of the video far exceeds what you can get from the AVC encoders included with Vegas Pro 11. x264 at about 2.5Mb/s is equal quality to Sony/Main Concept AVC at 16Mb/s. TSmuxeR is available for download from Digital Digest tsMuxeR 1.10.6 | Software - Digital Digest

TSmuxeR alone is a highly useful utility for muxing/demuxing streams, and simple authoring of a Blu-ray playable disk with chapter stops, just not menus. And it works with AC3 5.1 audio and 1080/60p.

multiAVCHD just completes the project by allowing you to have menus.

Used in conjunction with Phil Lee's GUI with AVI Synth scripts and Lagarith lossless codec, or the free Avid DNxHD plugin for Vegas and x264,or multiAVCHD and TSmuxeR, the tools remain highly relevant and available for free.

If you shoot native AVCHD, using a workflow that includes x264, TSmuxeR and a lossless or nearly lossless intermediate codec like Lagarith or DNxHD, is going to be the only way to maintain the native quality end to end.

TSMuxeR remains available for download from Digital Digest here. V.1.10.6 is the latest. Development has ceased but this version is bug free and completed.

Doom9 is another valuable souce through the HD authoring forums. DeanK is the author of multiAVCHD and if you're lucky he may answer your questions to him.

I've been burning Blu-ray playable, AVCHD and even HD-DVD disks with menus and chapters onto all manner of media including USB flash drives, red laser DVD and dual layer, and BD-R/RE for years.

These are the pc tools I recommend at a minimum:

Vegas Pro 11.0 64 bit -the only to pay for, the others all free.
Quicktime V.7
Avid DNxHD plugin
x264
TSmuxeR
Imgburn V.1.10.6 is the latest. Development has ceased but this version is bug free and completed. tsMuxeR 1.10.6 | Software - Digital Digest


Doom9 is another valuable souce through the HD authoring forums. DeanK is the author of multiAVCHD and if you're lucky he may answer your questions to him.

I've been burning Blu-ray playable, AVCHD and even HD-DVD disks with menus and chapters onto all manner of media including USB flas drives, red laser DVD and dual layer, and BD-R/RE for years.

These are the pc tools I recommend at a minimum:

Vegas Pro 11.0 64 bit -the only to pay for, the others all free.
Quicktime V.7
Avid DNxHD plugin
x264
TSmuxeR
Imgburn
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Old August 9th, 2012, 05:28 PM   #23
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

Tom,

Thanks for your detailed response. I'm still a little unclear on the exact steps to follow, please help a newbie. So I used Phil's tutorial to obtain an .avi file. DVD Architect would not touch this file, saying the bitrate is too high. Since you've been burning bluray quality videos to all kinds of media, obviously I don't have to burn my project to a bluray disc, I can burn it to a DVD, while keeping the high bluray quality of that .avi file.

What should be my next step? Assuming I don't need a menu, I can use TSmuxeR to burn my video to a DVD, and it will have BDMV folder structure and thus playable on a standalone bluray player? Do I even need to Avid DNxHD plug in?

Thank you!
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Old August 10th, 2012, 02:30 AM   #24
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norris Combs View Post
I can use TSmuxeR to burn my video to a DVD
I have two blu-ray players: The Panasonic only plays AVCHD catalogues from DVD, the Magnavox only plays blu-ray catalogues from DVD. These two catalogues are identical except for a flag in the movieobject.bdmv file. This has greatly diminished my enthusiasm for burning HD material on DVDs. However, here is an outline of what to do:

1. Start with some sort of HD video file.
2. Encode the audio as an elementary AC3 audio stream using FFmpeg or Aften.
3. Encode the video as an elementary H264 video stream using x264.
4. Multiplex the video and audio to a blu-ray or AVCHD catalogue using tsMuxeR.
5. Burn the resulting catalogue on a DVD using ImgBurn.

The result will be a DVD with HD content that plays in some blu-ray players. There are online guides which explain the details better than I can here. In addition to the technical discussions on Doom9 you may prefer to start with the howto guides on VideoHelp.

Guide, How To, Tutorial and Article list - VideoHelp.com
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Old August 10th, 2012, 10:36 AM   #25
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norris Combs View Post
Tom,

Thanks for your detailed response. I'm still a little unclear on the exact steps to follow, please help a newbie. So I used Phil's tutorial to obtain an .avi file. DVD Architect would not touch this file, saying the bitrate is too high. Since you've been burning bluray quality videos to all kinds of media, obviously I don't have to burn my project to a bluray disc, I can burn it to a DVD, while keeping the high bluray quality of that .avi file.

What should be my next step? Assuming I don't need a menu, I can use TSmuxeR to burn my video to a DVD, and it will have BDMV folder structure and thus playable on a standalone bluray player? Do I even need to Avid DNxHD plug in?

Thank you!
You have to output an h.264 file from your AVI, and use it as the source file input to TSmuxeR.
Correct you can burn an AVCHD disk to a DVD, but as Eric says you can't guarantee compatibility, will play on some but not all. Burning to Blu-ray media is more compatible generally but even a few Blu-ray players won't read Blu-ray writable media.

Eric's guide above is very good.
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Old August 10th, 2012, 11:39 AM   #26
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
You have to output an h.264 file from your AVI, and use it as the source file input to TSmuxeR.
Correct you can burn an AVCHD disk to a DVD, but as Eric says you can't guarantee compatibility, will play on some but not all. Burning to Blu-ray media is more compatible generally but even a few Blu-ray players won't read Blu-ray writable media.

Eric's guide above is very good.
Just to point out that all Blu-ray players should play BD-R and BD-RW single and dual layer. Unlike DVD and CD where recordable media appeared much later and so was designed to look like a standard CD/DVD to fool the player, often unsuccessfully, the Blu-ray specification always included rewritable and write once media in the specification.

If a player doesn't play BD-R or BD-RW, it will either be an authoring issue, for example using the wrong file format or not create the file structure correctly, or the media, player or writer is faulty.

Regards

Phil
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Old August 10th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #27
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Re: Easy way to create Blu-ray/AVCHD using the X264 encoder

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Originally Posted by Phil Lee View Post
Hi



Just to point out that all Blu-ray players should play BD-R and BD-RW single and dual layer. Unlike DVD and CD where recordable media appeared much later and so was designed to look like a standard CD/DVD to fool the player, often unsuccessfully, the Blu-ray specification always included rewritable and write once media in the specification.

If a player doesn't play BD-R or BD-RW, it will either be an authoring issue, for example using the wrong file format or not create the file structure correctly, or the media, player or writer is faulty.

Regards

Phil
Agreed, I've never found one that didn't but there were early reports some would not, but we can only speculate as to the reasons.
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