DVD looks awful after resizing from 1080i to SD in Vegas11

[Michael Ojjeh]

When I used Vegas9 my DVDs looked great after resizing from 1080i to SD, I upgraded to Vegas 11 and I was never able to have the same result using the same setting.

I shoot sports using Canon A1 60i and also canon T2i 60f(the footage from the T2i is converted with CineForm) I rendered the footage with:
Lower field First
Rendering quality - Best
Motion Blur type - Caussian
Deinterlace Method - Blend Field

Custom rendering setting :

Lower field First
Video quality - High (31)
Variable bit rate with Two-pass checked

the DVD footage from the T2i looks great but the M2t files looks awful a lots of artefacts, it is definitely
Deinterlacing problem and not resizing.

I even tried Deinterlacing the files with CineForm then back to vegas to render but still having the same result.

I also tried resizing the footages in Vegas using script (thanks to Jeff Harper) to 720 X 480 then rendered, the footage was a little bit better but not even close when I compare it to the old DVDs that I burned before.

Is there any change from Vegas 9 to 11 to cause that problem ?

[David Jimerson]

If you're setting to Lower Field First, you're not deinterlacing at all.

What render template are you starting with?

If your footage is 60i, which is appropriate for sports, why are you trying to deinterlace?

[Michael Ojjeh]

I did try upper field first and that looked bad so I changed it to Lower Field,
I am using DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen template.
The footage is 60i so I had to deinterlace, It is not progressive scan.

The bad footage is only with the Canon A1 which is 60i, so I think it is a combination with deinterlacing and resizing

[Ron Evans]

If you shoot sports why are you not using 60i for the DVD's to get smoother motion. What progressive frame rate are you setting for the DVD

Ron Evans

[Mark Williams]

I suggest this. Download the trial version of TMPGE 5. Export your project in Vegas to a "lossless" .avi file. Import into TMPGE5 and use the SD DVD template set to 2 pass CBR at 8mbs and audio at 320kps AC3 2 pass CBR. All quality setting should be at maximum and let the program resize your video. Then import into your authoring program.

I did a commercial project shot at 1080i last year that went to SD DVD and after much experimentation found that TMPGE4 (now 5) gave the best results.

[Michael Ojjeh]

Ron, I am using '720X480-60i, 16:9 NTSC' in DVDA.
I'm not sure if I understand your question about progressive frame for the DVD, it's set for frame rate 29.97 and progressive NO in DVDA project properties

[Ron Evans]

I asked because you seem to refer to deinterlacing in your first post. There is no need to deinterlace. That is not necessary for the DVD preset you now quote as the final DVD will be interlaced.

Like Mark I also use TMPGenc as this is the best that I have found especially when the data rate is low for a 2 hour DVD. In TMPGenc you can see how the file will fill the disc in choosing the data rate. I usually make sure that the disc is just over 4G and no more, check box 8000 max video data rate, 2 pass VBR usually 256 AC3. Under filters>Resize filter , uncheck "keep aspect ratio" this avoids black bars on a resize if video is being viewed on a PC etc.

I edit mainly in Edius so output a Canopus HQ fine file to encode in TMPGenc but a good output file from Vegas will be just as good input to TMPGenc as Mark suggests. I use DVD Architect 5.2 for SD and Bluray.

Ron Evans

[Michael Ojjeh]

Ron, so on your project properties you choose none for Deinterlace method ? even if my footage is interlace 60I not progressive.

[Ron Evans]

I believe that selection is needed for effects and deals with how video is used in effects/transitions.Depending on the effect one approach may look better than another. It doesn't deinterlace the whole video just how the individual fields are used for the effect. I have mine at interpolate and render at BEST. Good uses bilinear and BEST bicubic in contrast TMPGenc uses Lanczos3 for scaling and results in a much better downscaling.

Though as I say most of the time I edit in Edius and do audio in Vegas, author with DVD Architect. Since I also have Edius on the PC the Canopus HQ codec is available to Vegas for my use. Don't know what high quality near lossless codec you may have on your PC without creating very large files.

Ron Evans

[David Jimerson]

Michael, there's no need to deinterlace. In fact, it's probably not at all what you want, because if you do, you'll lose the "live" motion of 60i, which is good for sports. Instead, you'll have 30p motion, and that's not "live"-looking.

You don't have to change the DVD Architect NTSC template at all. Your footage is 60i; that template is 60i; it's a match.

[Michael Ojjeh]

David, that does not work, it actually looks the worst, you get lines all over the place, you have to deinterlace when you render the footage before you can import it to DVDA.

I have done that many times before by mistake and you can tell right away that the footage has not been deinterlaced.

[John Cline]

If you are rescaling interlaced footage you MUST set a deinterlace method in the project properties. (Personally, I always use "interpolate.")

When rescaling interlaced video to interlaced video at a different size, Vegas does not actually deinterlace the video but it splits each frame into separate progressive fields, rescales the individual fields and then folds the fields back together into interlaced frames. Vegas is doing it exactly how it should be done.

[David Jimerson]

Michael, you may see the "lines" when you play the file on a computer, but that would be normal for interlaced footage.

You're making an interlaced DVD; when you play the disc, those lines shouldn't show any more than any other 60i DVD would show them.

John, I'll take a look at that; it doesn't sound right to me, but if it's so -- yes, you'd want "interpolate fields" instead of "blend fields," no question.

You'll also want to disable resample on your clips.

[Ron Evans]

Like John I have interpolate set but the comparison to a TMPGenc downscale and encode is very obvious. I have CS5.5, Vegas 11 and Edius, of the three Edius from timeline is the best but is still not as good as TMPGenc. Vegas is the worst of the three though close to CS5.5. Edius would be good but only has a single pass encode and for longer programs just can't compete with TMPGenc 2 pass VBR.

I have never been totally clear on the properties menu items as it would seem that if BEST is chosen for render it may well override the other selections for the render anyway.

Ron Evans

[Michael Ojjeh]

David, I actually don't see any artefacts or lines on my computer, but definitely I see it on TV especially if I do not deinterlace.

I tried the trial version of TMPGenc I didn't see that much different from Vegas.

I think part of the footage was shot with -3db on a sunny day and white shirts and that was the worst footage of all, maybe it was just too sharp, any close-up shots were okay, any far shots were bad, like I said before the footage from my T2i looked beautiful after resizing, so it's definitely interlacing problem from Vegas 11, I did not have that problem in Vegas 9,