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Old September 26th, 2005, 12:03 PM   #1
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External Monitor w/ Vegas HD

Trying to figure out how to setup an audio/video editing workstation using Vegas that can edit both DV and HDV without spending an arm and a leg in the process. Thinking of shooting on eithger Sony or Canon's HDV cams, editing in Vegas (probably using the Cineform CFDV intermediate) and downconverting to SD for distribution, at least until the HD shakeout gets a little farther along and more people have HD playback gear. At the same time want to preserve the option to render to HD output if the situation arises. Finding the whole "Preview on External Monitor" equipment selection issues to be a bit confusing to say the least. HD-SDI is an obvious choice, but with the costs of the route so high there's gotta be other ways.

So I've shot on, say, a Sony FX1 in HDV and captured the tape into Vegas using the Cineform HD codec for editing. To colour correct, etc, I want to preview the timeline on a proper monitor. Before I began considering HD capabilities, for editing SD I was looking at adding a second conventional LCD panel to my Dell to give me dual monitor ability for the editing tools plus a Canopus ADC110 to drive a JVC TM-H1750 17" SD external CRT monitor for the external monitor preview. JVC has a high def version of that monitor that looks good (at double the price) the DT-V1710 that depending on the cards one installs can accept composite, s-video, component, SD-SDI, or HD-SDI. As I said above, the obvious choice is HD-SDI but that's also incredibly pricey when one factors in the cost of the card for the monitor and the cost of the card for the computer. What other options in both the output from the computer and the input into the monitor are there that would allow for decent preview of the timeline when editing using the Cineform CFHD intemediate.

Spot, at the seminar in Toronto a couple weeks ago you suggested the Sony Luma LCD panel. You also had a plasma screen - while taking your advice about not going plasma, how was that getting its signal from the computer? Would the Sony LCD panel serve for both the timeline and a full screen preview? If so, how do you feed it in each mode - do you need to switch from the computer input to a component video input on the monitor or does the computer video card serve adequately for both editing and previewing?

Last edited by Steve House; September 26th, 2005 at 03:16 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2005, 06:38 PM   #2
 
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Well...the Luma is an LCD, so is the little brother to it, the 234...
I like them, they can serve as either second monitor or as HD monitor. Vegas 6 makes this VERY easy with the second monitor used for HD/HDV output preview. My personal office system is a pair of really cheap HP 15" monitors, and a single Sony 234 monitor for HD, plus a BVM for SD monitoring with the SDI card built in.
In toronto, the plasma was getting signal via a DVI to component input adapter.
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Old October 3rd, 2005, 11:11 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle
Well...the Luma is an LCD, so is the little brother to it, the 234...
I like them, they can serve as either second monitor or as HD monitor. Vegas 6 makes this VERY easy with the second monitor used for HD/HDV output preview. My personal office system is a pair of really cheap HP 15" monitors, and a single Sony 234 monitor for HD, plus a BVM for SD monitoring with the SDI card built in.
In toronto, the plasma was getting signal via a DVI to component input adapter.
Thanks for the info. Presently have a Dell (Benq) 2001FP 21" 4:3 LCD that goes to 1600x1200. Have been considering the Sony P234 and looking at a Dell 2405FPW which goes to 1920x1200 WXGA as well as the Sony P234. The Dell has component video inputs that accept HD signals as well as the computer DVI input and is priced right at $1200.

I'm afraid the Sony Luma, in a comparable size, 232WS, is probably over the budget. It's certainly at the very upper limit if do-able at all. Do you find the colour quality and adjustments on the 234 adequate for both HD and SD previewing, colour correcting, and compositing or does one still need a CRT for SD work? How about the LUMA -would the one LCD be sufficient for both HD and SD work?

I know it's a long shot to ask, but JVC has a high def capable CRT (DT-V1710CG) that's in the 2 kilobuck range that accepts component inputs. They will display both SD and HD and have both HD-SDI and SD-SDI cards available for future upgrades. There's also an SD only CRT in the 1 kilobuck range (TM-H1750CG). Wondering if you've heard anything pro or con about them?

The options I'm considering going from cheap to dear seem to be:

1) Dell 2405 only
2) Sony 234 only
3) Dell 2405 plus JVC TM-H1750CG (SD CRT)
4) Dell 2405 plus JVC DT-V1710CG (HD/SD CRT)
5) Sony 234 plus JVC TM-H1750CG (SD CRT)
6) Sony 234 plus JVC DT-V1710CG (HD/SD CRT)
7) Sony Luma 232WS

plus my existing Dell monitor of course. Planning initially on shooting for corporate/wedding/event markets but dream of moving on to science and travel documentaries for broadcast or theatrical release and I'd love to do sopme music performance work as well. Planning on shooting HDV (debating Sony ZU1 or Canon XL H1 but may have to fall back to shooting only in SD on a Canon XL2 initially) with delivery initially to SD at the present but keeping a relatively painless upgrade path requiring minimum equipment replacement or additions open to HD delivery for the near future or as opportunities present.

Anyone care to offer comments or advice? - I'm finding sorting out the optimal pathway from amongst the possibilities while maintaining a realisitc startup budget is making my head spin more than a little.
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Old October 4th, 2005, 12:27 AM   #4
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Dell vs Sony Pricing

The Dell 2405 can often be found through one of these 'best deal' sites for about $900: http://www.deals2buy.com/ or http://www.edealinfo.com/ or http://www.techbargains.com/ - basically these sites inform you about some current Dell coupons that lower the price of the unit.

By contrast, the best street price for the Sony 234 is $1,300. That's almost a 50% increase over the Dell 2405.

Is the Sony that much better than the Dell?
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Old October 4th, 2005, 06:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Redford
The Dell 2405 can often be found through one of these 'best deal' sites for about $900: http://www.deals2buy.com/ or http://www.edealinfo.com/ or http://www.techbargains.com/ - basically these sites inform you about some current Dell coupons that lower the price of the unit.

By contrast, the best street price for the Sony 234 is $1,300. That's almost a 50% increase over the Dell 2405.

Is the Sony that much better than the Dell?
Exactly what I'm wondering. I know that my Dell 2001FP is a terrific monitor for computer use - if it was strictly for a 2nd computer monitor I'd go with the Dell wide screen without hesitation. But for editing HDV with colour correcting and compositiing, the things you use an external preview broadcast monitor for when working with SD, I'm wondering if the Sony is sufficiently better, more accurate, closer to an HD CRT broadcast monitor, to justify the added cost. If it was strictly for SD editing I'd probably go with the Dell 2405 and the JVC 17" SD broadcast monitors. But Spot as well as others suggest an LCD monitor for HD correcting since most people viewing the final product will be using LCD or plasma screens, hence the debate in my mind between the Dell 2405, Sony 234, or Sony Luma, basically wondering if the Dell would be up to the task.
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Old October 29th, 2005, 02:58 PM   #6
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2405 accepts HD component ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House
... The Dell has component video inputs that accept HD signals ...
Hi,

Are you sure about this. I haven't been able to check, but I've been told the specs of the monitor indicate the component inputs only work for 480i or 480p. If they do indeed accept HD, that would be wonderful. I've got one on order and I'm currectly using a Blackmagic Decklink pro with component out. If that doesn't work I'll guess I'll bite the bullet and buy an HDLink.

Cheers,
Damien Molineaux
earthling productions
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Old October 30th, 2005, 09:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien Molineaux
Hi,

Are you sure about this. I haven't been able to check, but I've been told the specs of the monitor indicate the component inputs only work for 480i or 480p. If they do indeed accept HD, that would be wonderful. I've got one on order and I'm currectly using a Blackmagic Decklink pro with component out. If that doesn't work I'll guess I'll bite the bullet and buy an HDLink.

Cheers,
Damien Molineaux
earthling productions
You msy be right, though I recall seeing somewhere that it could display HD component I can't find it in the specs on the Dell website. Let me know what you discover when your new monitor arrives. Thinking of ordering one myself in the not too distant future. Is your Blackmagic card the Decklink Pro or one of the DecklinkHD Pro 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 models? If it's the plain Pro, doesn't that output SD-only anyway, regardless?

Would be interested in your impressions when you get your monitor regarding the its capabilities for use in final preview monitoring, compositing, and colour evaluation and correction, the functions where having a calibrated CRT monitor in addition to the computer monitor for editing is so important in the SD world. One could always go with something like a Sony Luma broadcast reference LCD panel but a comparably sized one with the necessary HD input cards is waaaaaayyyyy up there in the stratosphere budget wise, far, far above my pay grade.
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Old January 20th, 2006, 04:39 AM   #8
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HD monitoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House
You msy be right, though I recall seeing somewhere that it could display HD component I can't find it in the specs on the Dell website. Let me know what you discover when your new monitor arrives. Thinking of ordering one myself in the not too distant future. Is your Blackmagic card the Decklink Pro or one of the DecklinkHD Pro 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 models? If it's the plain Pro, doesn't that output SD-only anyway, regardless?

Would be interested in your impressions when you get your monitor regarding the its capabilities for use in final preview monitoring, compositing, and colour evaluation and correction, the functions where having a calibrated CRT monitor in addition to the computer monitor for editing is so important in the SD world. One could always go with something like a Sony Luma broadcast reference LCD panel but a comparably sized one with the necessary HD input cards is waaaaaayyyyy up there in the stratosphere budget wise, far, far above my pay grade.
Well, much later I'm getting back into this thread. As expected I haven't been able to visualize HD through the component inputs on the Dell 2405. About my card, it is the Decklink HD pro, which is 4:2:2 it has both SDI and analog output in HD or SD. I haven't bought a HDlink, yet. For the time being I've decided to go with a JVC 17" CRT monitor with component inputs and optional SDI inputs, but that'll have to wait. This way I can do color correction and edit with a monitor output (SD) from any format, since the card can downconvert on the fly. It seems to me the best alternative right now. I'm currently testing a Panasonic BT-LH1700W monitor, it's nice but SD doesn't look great, Hd however isn't bad, but it's resolution is only 1280 x 768. Since I'm outputting everything to SD currently what I need is a good SD monitor, the JVC seems the best option (price/quality wise). The next step will be either an HD link or the optional SDi input board, depending on my next job.

Cheers,
Damien Molineaux
earthling productions
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 10:20 PM   #9
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Dell Monitor & Component 1080i

[QUOTE=Damien Molineaux]Hi,

"Are you sure about this. I haven't been able to check, but I've been told the specs of the monitor indicate the component inputs only work for 480i or 480p. If they do indeed accept HD, that would be wonderful."

This is what I saw with a quick check on someone else's Dell 2405. I went direct from my Z1U, component out to the Dell. The only Dell "Mode" that looked right was "Standard" (whatever that is). But - it showed more in the frame than what was showing on the Z1U lcd screen both in normal mode and with the "Allscan" mode switched on in the Z1. The Dell showed more edge at the left and top. It was not my monitor and I didn't have the chance to check all settings on it. Don't know yet if it's the Z1 Allscan that's not accurate, or the Dell, but hope someone can post back here if they learn more about this.
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