Mike Crash' De-interlace filter notes at DVinfo.net

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Old October 2nd, 2005, 02:31 PM   #1
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Mike Crash' De-interlace filter notes

Played around with it a little, and here's my notes on using it:

A- To get it to work:
Apply it to a 60i clip.
Go to file --> properties in the top menu bar.
Set field order to PROGRESSIVE. On the other settings, the filter will only deinterlace a single field at a time. Which does nothing.
Set deinterlace method to NONE. On the other settings, the footage will get deinterlaced twice, which isn't what you want.

B- When using File --> Render As
Go into the custom settings and change the field order to PROGRESSIVE.
I believe these settings override project properties.

C- Avoiding artifacts
On fast panning shots, everything in the shot needs to be de-interlaced. The filter sometimes thinks that particular parts aren't moving, and it doesn't deinterlace them. This leaves behind small interlaced areas, which are very obvious.

In cases like these, try these settings:

Field-only differencing

Compare color channels CHECKED. Subtle difference... checked seems to produce slightly better results.

Show motion areas only: You can check this to check what the filter thinks is in motion. Leave this unchecked when you render.

Blend instead of interpolate in motion areas: I would check this. Blend fields gives higher resolution.

use cubic for interpolation: Not interpolating, so this shouldn't matter.

Motion map denoising: Sure, check this.

Motion threshold: *5*. Higher settings are too conservative on fast panning shots I find. The filter suggest 10-20 in this case, but I find lower than the recommended numbers works better.

Scene change threshold: I haven't messed with this.

Advanced processing: No idea what these settings do.
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Old October 2nd, 2005, 07:12 PM   #2
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Where has this post been all my life, Glenn? Awesome! I've been trying to get this info 4-eva.

DJ

Last edited by DJ Kinney; October 3rd, 2005 at 03:11 AM.
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Old October 2nd, 2005, 09:23 PM   #3
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Well I'm glad someone here is taking notes! I see where I may have messed up. Thanks, Glenn.
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Old October 2nd, 2005, 10:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Chan
B- When using File --> Render As
Go into the custom settings and change the field order to PROGRESSIVE.
I believe these settings override project properties.
Couple of comments...

As far as I know, the render settings do NOT "override" the project settings, they simply come AFTER the project settings in the rendering workflow. An example of how this works might look like this: shoot 60i, bring in 60i events into timeline, make project settings equal to 24p, then render to "24p with 2-3 pulldown" (which is actually 60i assembled from the 24p project settings).

Also, the final render settings really depend on what you're trying to do. If for example, you're going to render to WMV or MOV to publish to the web where people will watch them on a progressive scan monitor, then setting to progressive on render makes sense. Also, if you are rendering to 24p MPEG2 to burn to DVD, then all good with progressive. However, if your target is 60i, like people are going to watch this on broadcast television, then you'd render to standard 60i DV-AVI. So, if your project is set to progressive using blend/interpolate (or alternatively the crash delacer), Vegas WILL deinterlace it, then if you render to 60i DV-AVI, vegas will render to an interlaced format by starting with your deinterlaced image. This would typically be used when taking a 24p project and rendering to a standard 29.97 NTSC format.
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Old October 3rd, 2005, 08:32 AM   #5
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A couple more comments:

You can't resize or change aspect ratio when using the Mike Crash deinterlacing filter. If you do it will resize the interlace lines which looks absolutely horrible.

I like the "interpolate" rather than the "blend fields" option. If you do use "interpolate" make sure to also use the "bicubic resize" option.

A tremendous use for this plugin is making 30fps video for web delivery.
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Old October 3rd, 2005, 08:37 AM   #6
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Laurence: Would clicking the little triangles do anything?
In the filter FX window, there are little trianges beside the filter name at the bottom where the keyframes are. Clicking it changes filter order, so filters can be applied pre-pan/crop.

Bill: I have a very poor understanding of the file --> render as... settings. So I'm honestly confused.
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Old October 6th, 2005, 01:53 PM   #7
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Glenn and others,

Important follow-up question. What about the clip properties "Smart Resample" and "reduce interlace flicker?"

Should the "disable resample" be checked?
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Old October 6th, 2005, 08:36 PM   #8
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I'm not very sure about "smart resample" as I haven't played with it. Does the manual say something about it?

Reduce interlace flicker: It should tell Vegas to de-interlace that clip. It should probably be left off.
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Old October 6th, 2005, 11:48 PM   #9
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The manual says that the smart resample, force resample, and do not resample, come into play when the clip framerate doesn't match the project framerate. So I guess it interpolates frams or something. But I think it does some other things as well, because I experimented today and found that the clip looked much, much better using this workflow when "disable resample" was turned on. Much more crisp and had a good 24p cadence.

Leaving it on resulted in some blur and some of the softness people often associate with the 24p pulldown render in Vegas.
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 01:50 AM   #10
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I would like to resurrect this thread briefly. I did some extensive experiments last night with footage of passing traffic.

I rendered out to 24p with 2-3 pulldown from widescreen DV. . . .

O.K. So, if you set clip and project properties to "progressive" and use Glenn's settings, there is extreme jutter, when in all other circumstances, things would be fine. It seems to only be in high motion scenarios.

So I made sure that the project properties deinterlace method is set to none, so it won't re-deinterlace, then make sure the clips are set to lower-field-first. It doesn't seem to matter if the project properties are lower first, as long as deinterlace method is none. In this case, I left it as lower-first.

The rendered out with the plugin. Looked beautiful, though with all the motion, the whole point of sharpness in the still bits was lost.

Now, a matter for Vegas ...

It was only later that I realized that the difference might be--that is, the jutter might be caused by--the force resample being turned to "none" in clip properties.

It drives me up a f@#%ing wall, this plugin, but it is an amazing tool, if we could just get the presets right.

Where is this Mike Crash guy, anyway?

DJ
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 04:21 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Kinney

Where is this Mike Crash guy, anyway?

DJ
Mike is in Czechoslovakia.
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 05:15 PM   #12
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Maybe we should get him on this board and ask him some questions.
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Old October 22nd, 2005, 11:04 PM   #13
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I spent several hours playing with this in Vegas 6 and couldn't get it to interpolate, it would only blend the fields. Finally I figured out why, I had rotated the clip 180 (adapter shot) and applied smart deinterlacer to the video track with the effect order arrow thing clicked to point to the left, but this doesn't work. Smart Deinterlace needs to be applied to the individual clip with that arrow pointing left (apply effect first thing) if you've rotated etc the clip. What a pain.
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Old December 4th, 2005, 04:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Kinney
I would like to resurrect this thread briefly. I did some extensive experiments last night with footage of passing traffic.

I rendered out to 24p with 2-3 pulldown from widescreen DV. . . .

O.K. So, if you set clip and project properties to "progressive" and use Glenn's settings, there is extreme jutter, when in all other circumstances, things would be fine. It seems to only be in high motion scenarios.

So I made sure that the project properties deinterlace method is set to none, so it won't re-deinterlace, then make sure the clips are set to lower-field-first. It doesn't seem to matter if the project properties are lower first, as long as deinterlace method is none. In this case, I left it as lower-first.

The rendered out with the plugin. Looked beautiful, though with all the motion, the whole point of sharpness in the still bits was lost.

Now, a matter for Vegas ...

It was only later that I realized that the difference might be--that is, the jutter might be caused by--the force resample being turned to "none" in clip properties.

It drives me up a f@#%ing wall, this plugin, but it is an amazing tool, if we could just get the presets right.

Where is this Mike Crash guy, anyway?

DJ
I have tried to download the script from the Mike Crash Webpage - NOTHING! I get a zip folder with no contents. Has anyone else experienced this problem or is there another way I can get this tool? tks ph
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Old December 4th, 2005, 04:20 PM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Hamilton
I have tried to download the script from the Mike Crash Webpage - NOTHING! I get a zip folder with no contents. Has anyone else experienced this problem or is there another way I can get this tool? tks ph

He's in Czechoslovakia.
Links I just used from the VASST pluginz site to his site are working fine, so...not sure what to tell you. He's had a dead link on the top of his page for a long while now, but the VASST site doesn't link to those.
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