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Old November 9th, 2005, 03:38 PM   #31
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Cineform Intermeidate AVI vs. M2T

Here is the workflow in Vegas 6 that I am using....
1) Capture 1080i 60i HD footage into an M2T file
2) Put this M2T file on the timeline and save it as a Cineform Connect HD codec version of AVI
3) Now that it is an AVI, I can easily edit in real time - I cannot due this with any fluidity with the M2T.
4) Now I can either print back to DV Tape as HD output or save as .mpg for DVD Architect. I did this and the picture looked the same as the native HD. I did not "replace" the Cineform avi's with the original M2T because the documentation says this is not necessary when you use the Cineform Codec.


Questions:
1) Is there any loss in going back to tape directly from the AVI for the HD?
2) What are the preferred settings if I want to go directly to NTSC 24p DVD Architect Widescreen? There is a template but should I be wary of other settings in order to avoid stuttering, etc?
3) I did this and ran the footage on Windows Media Player and it stuttered. But when I previewed the mpg in DVD Architect it played just fine. Is there a known issue with Windows Media Player and 24p encoding.

This forum is great. thanks for all of your help
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Old November 10th, 2005, 01:51 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Hamilton
Is there a known issue with Windows Media Player and 24p encoding.

This forum is great. thanks for all of your help
There's a known issue with Windows Media Player and ANY HD!! I don't use it, because it's so damned flaky - even WMV9 HD 720p won't play on any of my 4 machines - it's not funny!!

For good HD file playback, regardless of it's format (well all but the most exotic) go get Windows Media Player Classic, and VLC.

They're both free - can't get a better price than that... and if one of them can't play your file the other definitely will!!
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Old November 11th, 2005, 04:52 AM   #33
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I have an additional question to this: what if I am capturing multiple shots as seperate m2t-files.

Is there a way to easily convert a batch of m2t-files to connect-HD-AVI, and then start editing?

This instead of converting a very long m2t file to one AVI and cutting that one up into pieces.

Regards,
Eriwn
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Old November 11th, 2005, 11:02 AM   #34
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Erwin - good point. I am looking at batch rendering scripts and I know there is a website that sells something that will do this but don't know if it will render using Cineform HD Codec. That would be very sweet to keep steps to a minimum.

I still want to know if rendering directly to the 24p DVDA NTSC template will provide decent 24p if the project you're rendering is setup as 60i in the properties field. I am trying to avoid the step of converting all clips to 24p inserting 2:3:3:2 FIRST before EDITing. ph
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Old November 11th, 2005, 03:08 PM   #35
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how to put multiple m2t files on the timeline and batch render them to multiple avi's

Well I just found a nice solutions on how to put multiple m2t files on the time line and batch render them to multiple intermediate avi-files (with connectHD codec.

It can be done with 2 simple scripts I found online! Put these 2 scripts in the right Vegas subfolder, adjust 2 lines of code and place all your m2t clips on the timeline. The first script places markers at every new clip. The second script renders them to individual avi files. Done.

These are the steps:

1. go to http://s92274348.onlinehome.us/vegas.html and download the "Vegas 5 scripts" (at the top op the page)
2. get the following 2 scripts out of the zip-file:
- AddMarkersToEvents.js and
- RenderOnMarkers.js
3. copy them to the Vegas script folder: C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas 6.0\Script Menu
4. you need to change 2 small things in the file RenderOnMarkers.js. To do so, open the file in notepad or some other text editor
5. replace the proper destination folder in this line: var defaultBasePath = "D:\\vmedia\\";
6. place the correct destination format you want in this line: var template = FindRenderTemplate(renderer, /NTSC DV/);
for example, I replaced it with: var template = FindRenderTemplate(renderer, /HDV 720-25p intermediate/);
You can just use the same name that is used for the templates you find in Vegas when you go to File > Render As...

7. Start Vegas, and put all your m2t clips on the timeline.
8. Go to Tools > Scripting and fire the first one: AddMarkersToEvents - it only takes a few seconds
9. After that you fire the next script RenderOnMarkers - that takes a little longer
10. done, a folder with nice avi's...

I just tested it with 4 m2t files I downloaded from this site and it works perfect. Let me know!

Regards,
Erwin
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Old November 12th, 2005, 11:26 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle
Lots of people are printing back to HDV tape, myself included. You can do this via either Vegas or via CineForm. This is what the Export tab is for. It really should be named "Print to tape" rather than export, so that it conforms with industry "speak" but it's the same thing.
I have Vegas 6 and I use the Print to HDV Tape... selection under the tools menu. This works fine but my oh my does it take time! Any suggestions on improving speed to create the M2T file that gets printed back to tape? Or is this just a function of the computer and the codec?

I have a 3.0 ghz 1 gig Ram Pentium 4 DELL that does really well in most areas but this area - could just be the size of the file that is being created. tks ph
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Old November 13th, 2005, 11:18 AM   #37
 
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A 3GHz system is on the bare edge of being able to manage HDV without using a proxy, and rendertime will be slow no matter what, particularly if you're using only 2 drives on the system. This is indeed relevant to the frame size, which translates to file size.
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Old November 13th, 2005, 03:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle
A 3GHz system is on the bare edge of being able to manage HDV without using a proxy, .

So using Cineform Connect HD will remedy this?

thanks
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Old November 13th, 2005, 04:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle
A 3GHz system is on the bare edge of being able to manage HDV without using a proxy, and rendertime will be slow no matter what, particularly if you're using only 2 drives on the system. This is indeed relevant to the frame size, which translates to file size.
Spot - I got the 3.0 Ghz because I knew I needed that for HDV. Now having said that it works great with Cineform HD Codec that comes with Vegas 6. When I render from the HD 60i project to SD (24p or 60i) for DVD the render times aren't great but ok and much better than I expected. BUT - when I go to Tools/Print to HDV Tape.... it basically creates a NEW M2T file that is then played and printed to the tape - that render takes about 50-60% longer.

The great thing about this is I can save that M2T for future prints to tape if I need to. The M2T I created is 1.097 GIG and is about 5 min 42 sec long. Does that sound about right? Is there an average? It took over an hour and a half to get this which is crazy. By the way I had lots of still pics and titles and this was not just straight video with simple crossfades etc.

So as Fred asks would purchasing the full blown Cineform Connect HD or some other product/plug in for Vegas 6.0c make the rendering back to M2T go faster? The system I have as I said is 3.0 Ghz. I have two 160 gig drives as a Raid 0 in the tower. Attached via firewire to this is a LaCie external 160 gig 7200 rpm drive that I use to capture and render video to so to keep them off the system drive. Thanks for your help. ph

p.s. I know my system is on the low-end for this but screams compared to what I upgraded from.
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Old November 14th, 2005, 07:25 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Hamilton
Spot - I got the 3.0 Ghz because I knew I needed that for HDV. Now having said that it works great with Cineform HD Codec that comes with Vegas 6. When I render from the HD 60i project to SD (24p or 60i) for DVD the render times aren't great but ok and much better than I expected. BUT - when I go to Tools/Print to HDV Tape.... it basically creates a NEW M2T file that is then played and printed to the tape - that render takes about 50-60% longer.

The great thing about this is I can save that M2T for future prints to tape if I need to. The M2T I created is 1.097 GIG and is about 5 min 42 sec long. Does that sound about right? Is there an average? It took over an hour and a half to get this which is crazy. By the way I had lots of still pics and titles and this was not just straight video with simple crossfades etc.

So as Fred asks would purchasing the full blown Cineform Connect HD or some other product/plug in for Vegas 6.0c make the rendering back to M2T go faster? The system I have as I said is 3.0 Ghz. I have two 160 gig drives as a Raid 0 in the tower. Attached via firewire to this is a LaCie external 160 gig 7200 rpm drive that I use to capture and render video to so to keep them off the system drive. Thanks for your help. ph

p.s. I know my system is on the low-end for this but screams compared to what I upgraded from.
I hope Douglas has some experiences/views on the best approach.

I do know that rendering a m2t from a CFHD avi project for writing back to tape via ConnectHD's HDLink tool was relatively painless. Meaning - pain in the amount of render time to get the m2t, but essentially real-time recording from m2t onto tape via firewire.

Which is the most effective workflow in terms of results and/or time utilisation is something worth knowing...
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Old November 14th, 2005, 07:33 AM   #41
 
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My workflow is this, depending on machine used;
Slow machine-
1. Capture using Vegas, then using GearShift, I convert to DV Proxy only the segments I want to keep.
2. Edit
3. Use Gearshift to exchange proxy for m2t
4. Render to file using template for 1080, print to tape using Vegas' Vidcap tool.

Fast machine:
1. Capture via CineForm
2. Edit
3. Same as above, render to m2t using Vegas' templates.

You shouldn't be needing to render twice? Are you perhaps rendering to the intermediary first, and then to m2t?
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Old November 14th, 2005, 08:13 AM   #42
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gearshift is roughly $60 or somn. how much is cf?
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Old November 14th, 2005, 08:18 AM   #43
 
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Gearshift is $49.00 unless you use the DVInfo.net discount code "SaveNow."
CineForm is $199.00, but bear in mind, it does a lot more than GearShift can.
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Old November 14th, 2005, 09:49 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle
My workflow is this, depending on machine used;

You shouldn't be needing to render twice? Are you perhaps rendering to the intermediary first, and then to m2t?
Yes. That is the only way I can because editing the M2T is choppy and slow - the Cineform AVI is not and workable. Then when I finish I go to PRINT TO HDV TAPE and I guess the transitions, etc. are rendered at that point and it does create a whole new M2T - that is the process that is slow. Per the manual I am not replacing the Cineform AVI with the M2T because the manual says this is not necessary in order to render back to tape - as I undersand it - but now I am thinking maybe this is the problem? Thoughts?
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Old November 14th, 2005, 11:29 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Fast machine:
1. Capture via CineForm
2. Edit
3. Same as above, render to m2t using Vegas' templates.
Would this be deemed a "fast" machine? If not I might re-think about this whole HDV hobbie.
-P4 2.8 HT
-2 GB RAM
-2 hardrives 80gb and a 500gb gtech raid
-and of course Vegas 6c
Thanks!
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