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Old October 5th, 2005, 12:49 AM   #1
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Titles look video-ish

I debated whether to put this in the filmlook category or Vegas, but decided that in the end, it will be a Vegas problem, as Vegas will have to fix it.

I have good looking deinterlaced 24p video and I put some titles on top of it. Pretty simple. It's the beginng of the movie. But the titles just float on top, not really blending at the edges, and just humming like video. They look fake, is what I'm saying.

They are 24p titles and set to progressive.

Do I halve their opacity, or change the color? (They're white now). What's going on that they look so sharp, even after the whole thing's been rendered down to mpeg2?

Thanks,

DJ
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Old October 5th, 2005, 01:28 AM   #2
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I know of what you speak. I feel a plug-in for this needs to be developed. The organic-ness of optically generated or film bound titles simply look better, no doubt.
Opacity does help slightly. But the titles are still crisp and too video-y.
Now, since you use Vegas, here's some totally useless info for you but it may inspire you nonetheless.
I've also tried a different trick which, funny enough was done in iMovie.
Yes, little ol' iMovie.
I was basically generating my titles with Photoshop, several different CFX plug-ins, Quicktime and an Ezedia plug-in.

1) Create Photoshop title on white background
2) Increase opacity by 5%
3) Apply gaussian blur 2%
4) Export as jpeg
5) Open as Quicktime movie.
6) Import into Ezedia ez matte (iMovie plug-in)
7) Create as matte
4) Apply flicker plug-in fx 1%
7) Overlay title on movie with in-out points.

With this I got titles that look pretty filmish. I couldn't even get them to this level in FCP, go figure. They look way, way better than those sharp, humming white titles.
Okay, now that I've given you a formula totally useless to Vegas, My only hope it will allow you think of a viable workaround.
There's always a way...
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Old October 5th, 2005, 04:00 AM   #3
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I hear what you're saying. As with turning all video into a more filmic look, it's a process of introducing imperfections. It's all about "downgrading" the video. The trick is doing it in the right order.

I haven't tried it yet, but suspect, that a combination of opacity, gaussian blur, a render out to some imperfect format to introduce grain, and then a re-introduction, will be the answer.

Of course, as you said, and smartly so, this plugin just needs work.

Maybe someone has an opinion on application of film effects to the text. Like grain, flicker, or whatnot.
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Old October 5th, 2005, 12:52 PM   #4
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Actually, as we discuss this, the company I mentioned (CFX) is always up for taking ideas for new plug-ins.
I suggested an idea for a plug-in to them once and they accepted the idea and made the plug-in. Easy as that.
I think I'll talk to them about a one off plug-in that will do the trick.
My method is effective but tedious at best.
Good luck on your end.
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Old October 5th, 2005, 01:59 PM   #5
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Hey, that sounds good. I'll update when I have a better look on the titles.
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Old October 17th, 2005, 04:08 PM   #6
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Speaking of titles in Vegas,
what titling package you guy would you guys recommend for Vegas. I know Sony is pushing Boris Graffiti.. Are there any better/cheaper options? On the same note - what are the good motion graphics packages out ther again for Sony Vegas?
Thank you all
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Old October 18th, 2005, 03:50 AM   #7
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I'm afraid I've never used boris graffiti. I'm unsure what kind of titling you'd like to do, but every kind of filmic hollywood titling is available natively. Excepting the fact that it is too sharp and doesn't seem optic.
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Old October 18th, 2005, 03:14 PM   #8
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I actually have been using Wildforms WIld FX to encode Flash animated files, saved as AVI's back to Vegas.
I like the simplicity and crispness of the final titles. I then might add some slight blur to the file to soften it up a bit.
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Old October 26th, 2005, 09:31 PM   #9
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The simplest solution I've found to make the titles look like part of the picture and not floating on top of the picture is to drop a gaussian blur on them and set it to 0.002 or 0.003. The "Light Blur" preset is already 0.003.

However, what concerns me about the original post is the "deinterlaced 24p" comment.

What do you mean by that? You don't want to be deinterlacing 24p footage. There's no need. Just drop it on a 24p timeline and you're set.
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Old October 27th, 2005, 11:14 PM   #10
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What I meant was, well processed 60i footage, deinterlaced, and with a pulldown.

Last edited by DJ Kinney; October 28th, 2005 at 02:30 PM.
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Old October 29th, 2005, 05:07 PM   #11
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I've always struggled with the titles having the video look as well. Here's a clip of a title with some added fx (using vegas 6) to try and elimate that look. see what you think.

www.elpez.com/credit.wmv
(file size is about 10 megs)


comments/suggesting/critiques welcome

j.
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Old October 29th, 2005, 10:53 PM   #12
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Vegas title

Excellent example John, do you have a veg file for your sample title?
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Old October 30th, 2005, 08:06 PM   #13
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That looked really good, particularly after the word stops moving, but before the flash. What's the skinny? Which effects?
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Old October 31st, 2005, 03:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Greis
Excellent example John, do you have a veg file for your sample title?
unfortunely i don't have the veg anymore :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Kinney
That looked really good, particularly after the word stops moving, but before the flash. What's the skinny? Which effects?
These are the settings i used as good as i can remember

Gaussian Blur (when i use titles, i always use gaussian blur to some degree. It helps to soften the harsh edges.) even with a setting of 0.005 it will make a noticable difference.

Add Noise -- This helps to make it looks a little more "worn" like film. I try not to make it too obvious but enough to give it a somewhat rough texture. try a setting of 0.50 - 0.120

Magic Bullet Film Looks - I only have the demo so I dont have a wide range of settings to play with. I select Filmic and apply the effect 100%

Motion Blur - If your titles are moving, then this is a must, in my opinion.

Thats usually all I use. Generally, i would say motion blur and add noise are the 2 effects I always use to degrade the titles.

j.
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Old October 31st, 2005, 08:58 PM   #15
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Isn't supersampling the thing you're supposed to use for graphics? Does it do the same thing, effectively, as motion blur?
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