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Old April 30th, 2014, 08:20 PM   #1
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1920x1080 60i a waste?

Well, I have my new shiny Canon XF300s and thought to my self, 'self, we'll just record at the highest setting of 1920x1080 60i 50mbps, only to find myself in a quarrel with myself at the process of getting it to DVD, i.e. simplifying my steps in Sony Vegas 10, which I have, only has =Blu-ray 1920x1080-60i and an HDV 1080-60i as possible Mpeg rendering.

So while I like the idea of recording at 50mpbs, I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble for lets say a wedding that is not going to bluray, but DVD instead, or a project that is going to web.

Upon researching the good ole' net, most discussions center around converting the mxf files to something else using a third party. That's not a problem, Vegas 10 opens and edits them fine (even though they are gigantic), it's just befuddling trying to find a good work flow that doesn't involve unnecessary large files on capture or render. Or is this the pill I have to swallow to get the best quality, 50mbps?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. Thank you in advance.
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Old April 30th, 2014, 10:20 PM   #2
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Re: 1920x1080 60i a waste?

Read the XF300 manual carefully. Note only the 50Mbps rate has the 4:2:2 color space. You want the most latitude in post, you have to shoot 50mps. If you're not going to touch it, or only a little, you won't notice the diffference shooting 35Mbps.

Vegas: In your 'Render As" dialog in Vegas, uncheck "= match project settings". This gives you the option to render to "Mainconcept MPEG-2: DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen Video Stream", which you should do. Render your audio as AC3, burn DVD in DVDA.
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Old April 30th, 2014, 11:14 PM   #3
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Re: 1920x1080 60i a waste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer Listing View Post
Read the XF300 manual carefully. Note only the 50Mbps rate has the 4:2:2 color space. You want the most latitude in post, you have to shoot 50mps. If you're not going to touch it, or only a little, you won't notice the diffference shooting 35Mbps.

Vegas: In your 'Render As" dialog in Vegas, uncheck "= match project settings". This gives you the option to render to "Mainconcept MPEG-2: DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen Video Stream", which you should do. Render your audio as AC3, burn DVD in DVDA.
Thanks Rainer. That's what I was wondering about. Time to clear out some drive space. I wonder if the " uncheck "= match project settings" is missing in Vegas 10, i'm not seeing it.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 01:14 AM   #4
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Re: 1920x1080 60i a waste?

Apologies, I'm on Vegas 12, only reason I could think of why you wouldn't be seeing the Mainconcept DVDA render option. In VP10 and earlier it was just always there, I'd guess now you're missing the codec.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 07:54 AM   #5
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Re: 1920x1080 60i a waste?

There is always a question of wanting to give the best quality to a client vs the cost vs what is actually visible. What can they actually see. One thing you can't answer is what quality is their playback equipment, what environment they are playing back in and how do they have their TV set-up. Experience says most average consumers either use the default setting on the TV or jack it up to dynamic because it pops the colors. I would agree that if you are not doing any major color correction or layering of video levels or keying, that something in the 30 mbs range would get the job done well. But if you have the space and have software and a PC that can handle the larger files without trouble then there is no reason not to use them. I would weight out all your options, time, computer, space, and also do a couple of quality tests to see which one is the most efficient.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 09:56 AM   #6
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Re: 1920x1080 60i a waste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer Listing View Post
Apologies, I'm on Vegas 12, only reason I could think of why you wouldn't be seeing the Mainconcept DVDA render option. In VP10 and earlier it was just always there, I'd guess now you're missing the codec.

Hmm, wonder if it's worth going up to 12 then.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 04:38 PM   #7
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Re: 1920x1080 60i a waste?

Well, it's up to 13 now. But try a reinstall of 10 first.
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 07:21 AM   #8
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Re: 1920x1080 60i a waste?

Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Davis View Post
Well, I have my new shiny Canon XF300s and thought to my self, 'self, we'll just record at the highest setting of 1920x1080 60i 50mbps, only to find myself in a quarrel with myself at the process of getting it to DVD, i.e. simplifying my steps in Sony Vegas 10, which I have, only has =Blu-ray 1920x1080-60i and an HDV 1080-60i as possible Mpeg rendering.

So while I like the idea of recording at 50mpbs, I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble for lets say a wedding that is not going to bluray, but DVD instead, or a project that is going to web.

Upon researching the good ole' net, most discussions center around converting the mxf files to something else using a third party. That's not a problem, Vegas 10 opens and edits them fine (even though they are gigantic), it's just befuddling trying to find a good work flow that doesn't involve unnecessary large files on capture or render. Or is this the pill I have to swallow to get the best quality, 50mbps?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. Thank you in advance.
Getting from 1080i to DVD SD is a dirty process and one which often gives you worse results than if you had just started from SD in the first place.

To get SD from HD that starts as 1080i it is first de-interlaced to 60p (well an approximation off) so you get a lot of interlacing artifacts baked in, then it is resized to SD 60p and then sliced into 60i. The result is a lot of rough looking edges over anything with detail, terrible moire as well can affect any patterns.

Adding a Gaussian blur to the 1080i footage will help, as the problem is there is too much detail to down-convert cleanly, so getting rid of the high frequency information will help.

Basically you end up with two interlaced fields that have been interpolated, and they just do not marry up as well as if they were captured originally at SD 60i.

Regards

Phil
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 07:42 PM   #9
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Re: 1920x1080 60i a waste?

Looking at the specs, you can record using 1920x1080 30p and not worry about de-interlacing and the associated problems with it.

I noticed that it will do 1280x720 at 60p so that might help. It is a shame that Canon did not include 1920x1080 60p. They should have.

1920x1080 60i and the associated de-interlacing problems are a waste in my opinion!
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Old May 16th, 2014, 11:04 AM   #10
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Re: 1920x1080 60i a waste?

Well for giggles, a month ago or more I emailed Sony Vegas support with some questions about ration/mxf/etc etc etc. And true to form, they sent me this link, https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1105 more than a month later. lol. What a joke Sony support is. I wonder if Sony is getting out of the software business. They've really let themselves go.

Vent over.
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