Quality analysis posted for Vegas users running Connect HD 2.0 at DVinfo.net

David Newman · October 12th, 2005, 10:30 AM

This has taken me a while, but I have spend the last month working on quality improvement to the CineForm Intermediate codec and how it works within Vegas 6.0c. With so many Vegas editors working with HDV, using the shipped CineForm Intermediate codec or the upgraded Connect HD, we get a lot of feedback on image quality and performance (mostly very positive.) Of course we take any negative feedback seriously and we have found areas for improvement. Vegas 6.0c has recently been upgraded to version 2.1 of the codec, which was a big improvement, but quality improvements have continued since then to the new v2.3 ships in the new Connect HD 2.0.

On the CineForm website we have various quality demonstrations, but until today they where all performed within Premiere Pro. The latest analysis was done using Vegas 6.0c, giving Vegas users a much more accurate indication of the Vegas quality experience.

Please check out http://www.cineform.com/technology/H...ysis051011.htm

Thanks

Gary McClurg · October 12th, 2005, 10:55 AM

David,

Do you know if the Z1 in pal mode can shoot at the 1/50th shutter speed without being in 25CF mode...

If so then can you use your software to turn it into 24p?

Also I'm one of those Mac people I couldn't find it but I thought I read that you could make it a quicktime file instead of an avi file?

Thanks Gary

David Newman · October 12th, 2005, 12:17 PM

1/50th shutter for a 50Hz is standard. Yet that image would be interlaced and we don't (yet :) ) offer de-interlacing of 50i to 24p. CineForm isn't stored as Quicktime file or running on the Mac (again, yet.)

Gary McClurg · October 12th, 2005, 01:33 PM

Thanks for the answer David...

I guess I wrote that wrong... I didn't know if the Z1 can shoot 25frames non CF mode in pal... or will it only shoot 25 frames in the CF mode that was really the way I should have written it...

David Newman · October 12th, 2005, 02:20 PM

If you mean 25 "frames" as progressive vs interlaced, CineFrame 25 is the best option. You can run the shutter at 1/25sec in 50i mode, but the resolution is either the same or lower than the CF25 mode.

John McCully · October 12th, 2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

Please check out http://www.cineform.com/technology/H...ysis051011.htm

Thanks

Most impressive indeed. HDLink is the most inexpensive software I have when value for money is considered.

Matt Howell · October 14th, 2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

Vegas 6.0c has recently been upgraded to version 2.1 of the codec, which was a big improvement, but quality improvements have continued since then to the new v2.3 ships in the new Connect HD 2.0.

Hi David, I have a couple of CineForm codec questions.

Can you comment on the improvements to version 2.1 included in the Vegas 6.0c update?

Can you comment on or better yet demonstrate the difference in picture quality between CineForm version 2.1 included in Vegas 6.0c and CineForm version 2.3 in Connect HD? I know there are performance and functionality gains in Connect HD, but I simply want to know about the picture quality difference between these two versions. Demo pictures would be nice.

David Newman · October 14th, 2005, 01:25 PM

Version 2.1 fixed an error that was many visilibily in the shadows, if you looked very hard, and only in Vegas (not in AE, VirtualDub, Premiere etc.) So 2.1 is a nice verison. However, the upgrade from 2.1 to 2.3 of the codec focused on multiple generation characteristic within Vegas itself. Vegas is an RGB tool, whereas most of the previous multi-generation work on early codecs was performed in YUV. So Version 2.3 is truely calibrated for the RGB pathways used by Vegas. If you aren't using Connect HD, the v2.3 codec alone may not be a reason to upgrade, yet if you are using CineForm Intermeidate with Vegas there as so many other quality and performance benefits to Connect HD -- you should get it -- getting v2.3 earlier then through a Vegas upgrade is simply a bonus.

Laurence Kingston · October 14th, 2005, 01:44 PM

I just looked but can only find version 2.1 on the Cineform site.

David Newman · October 14th, 2005, 01:53 PM

Connect HD 2.0 contains codec v2.3 within it. Where were you looking? The codec version number and product versioning is different, it may be a little confusing.

Laurence Kingston · October 14th, 2005, 03:14 PM

Well I have the latest so I'm sure it's probably the right one: The one installed with ConnectHD 2.0.2.11. Yeah, I guess I was mixing up ConnectHD program and codec version numbers.

Paul Kepen · February 15th, 2006, 11:31 PM

David,
I have Cineform Aspect HD for Premiere. Will this work for Vegas 6.0c? If yes, will the quality be as good asConnect HD, or is the Connect version more optimized for Vegas?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 16th, 2006, 09:53 AM

The quality is similar, but Aspect does not have anything to offer Vegas. It's a Premiere-optimized product.

Paul Kepen · February 16th, 2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

The quality is similar, but Aspect does not have anything to offer Vegas. It's a Premiere-optimized product.

So are you saying that I'd get better HDV quality and useability in Vegas if I spend the extra $$ and purchase Connect in addition to the Aspect that I already have?

I'm willing to do that, but only if it will make a difference!

Thanks - PK

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 16th, 2006, 11:33 AM

You won't get better quality, but you might find it runs smoother and more efficiently. So, I'd say your editing experience will improve with the purchased plugin, yes.

October 12th, 2005, 10:30 AM	#1
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Quality analysis posted for Vegas users running Connect HD 2.0 This has taken me a while, but I have spend the last month working on quality improvement to the CineForm Intermediate codec and how it works within Vegas 6.0c. With so many Vegas editors working with HDV, using the shipped CineForm Intermediate codec or the upgraded Connect HD, we get a lot of feedback on image quality and performance (mostly very positive.) Of course we take any negative feedback seriously and we have found areas for improvement. Vegas 6.0c has recently been upgraded to version 2.1 of the codec, which was a big improvement, but quality improvements have continued since then to the new v2.3 ships in the new Connect HD 2.0. On the CineForm website we have various quality demonstrations, but until today they where all performed within Premiere Pro. The latest analysis was done using Vegas 6.0c, giving Vegas users a much more accurate indication of the Vegas quality experience. Please check out http://www.cineform.com/technology/H...ysis051011.htm Thanks __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 12th, 2005, 12:17 PM	#3
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	1/50th shutter for a 50Hz is standard. Yet that image would be interlaced and we don't (yet :) ) offer de-interlacing of 50i to 24p. CineForm isn't stored as Quicktime file or running on the Mac (again, yet.) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 12th, 2005, 02:20 PM	#5
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	If you mean 25 "frames" as progressive vs interlaced, CineFrame 25 is the best option. You can run the shutter at 1/25sec in 50i mode, but the resolution is either the same or lower than the CF25 mode. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 14th, 2005, 01:25 PM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Version 2.1 fixed an error that was many visilibily in the shadows, if you looked very hard, and only in Vegas (not in AE, VirtualDub, Premiere etc.) So 2.1 is a nice verison. However, the upgrade from 2.1 to 2.3 of the codec focused on multiple generation characteristic within Vegas itself. Vegas is an RGB tool, whereas most of the previous multi-generation work on early codecs was performed in YUV. So Version 2.3 is truely calibrated for the RGB pathways used by Vegas. If you aren't using Connect HD, the v2.3 codec alone may not be a reason to upgrade, yet if you are using CineForm Intermeidate with Vegas there as so many other quality and performance benefits to Connect HD -- you should get it -- getting v2.3 earlier then through a Vegas upgrade is simply a bonus. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 14th, 2005, 01:53 PM	#10
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Connect HD 2.0 contains codec v2.3 within it. Where were you looking? The codec version number and product versioning is different, it may be a little confusing. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 12th, 2005, 10:55 AM	#2
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	David, Do you know if the Z1 in pal mode can shoot at the 1/50th shutter speed without being in 25CF mode... If so then can you use your software to turn it into 24p? Also I'm one of those Mac people I couldn't find it but I thought I read that you could make it a quicktime file instead of an avi file? Thanks Gary

October 12th, 2005, 01:33 PM	#4
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	Thanks for the answer David... I guess I wrote that wrong... I didn't know if the Z1 can shoot 25frames non CF mode in pal... or will it only shoot 25 frames in the CF mode that was really the way I should have written it...

October 14th, 2005, 01:44 PM	#9
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	I just looked but can only find version 2.1 on the Cineform site.

October 14th, 2005, 03:14 PM	#11
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	Well I have the latest so I'm sure it's probably the right one: The one installed with ConnectHD 2.0.2.11. Yeah, I guess I was mixing up ConnectHD program and codec version numbers.

February 15th, 2006, 11:31 PM	#12
Paul Kepen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis Minnesota Posts: 347	Aspect vs Connect David, I have Cineform Aspect HD for Premiere. Will this work for Vegas 6.0c? If yes, will the quality be as good asConnect HD, or is the Connect version more optimized for Vegas?

February 16th, 2006, 09:53 AM	#13
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	The quality is similar, but Aspect does not have anything to offer Vegas. It's a Premiere-optimized product. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 16th, 2006, 11:33 AM	#15
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	You won't get better quality, but you might find it runs smoother and more efficiently. So, I'd say your editing experience will improve with the purchased plugin, yes. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com