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Old November 15th, 2015, 01:02 PM   #1
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Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

I have a Sony AX100 4K camera and edit/render to 1080p 24p for Blu-Ray

Is it better to film in 24p rather than 25p as during rendering it is converted to 24p when using the Blu-Ray template? I wish to minimise the down sizing artefacts.

Many thanks Andy
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Old November 15th, 2015, 01:20 PM   #2
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

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Originally Posted by Andy Smith View Post
Is it better to film in 24p rather than 25p as during rendering it is converted to 24p when using the Blu-Ray template? I wish to minimise the down sizing artefacts.
Why would 24p have less down-sizing artifacts than 25p?
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Old November 15th, 2015, 01:35 PM   #3
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

Currently downsizing causes flashing of some items during motion (white drain pipe on house as camera pans slowly across, for example). I just wondered if filming 24p would mean less issues as rendering would not need to remove one frame per sec of video.
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Old November 15th, 2015, 01:37 PM   #4
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

Why would that make issues any less? Why would it not potentially exacerbate them instead? Why would a difference of a single frame per second be what eliminates flashing? And why do you think flashing on pans is an image artifact?
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Old November 15th, 2015, 02:03 PM   #5
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here.
Since you're in the UK, then I'd expect you to be shooting 25p. Why are you using a Bluray template that uses 24p? There must be a choice in the list of templates - or you can change the frame rate to 25...
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Old November 15th, 2015, 02:23 PM   #6
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

Blu-Ray is only 24p 50i or 60i
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Old November 15th, 2015, 05:15 PM   #7
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

If you look into the MainConcept Bluray render settings, you will find that you can customise the templates.
25p is on the drop-down menu...
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Old November 16th, 2015, 09:25 AM   #8
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

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Originally Posted by Robin Davies-Rollinson View Post
If you look into the MainConcept Bluray render settings, you will find that you can customise the templates.
25p is on the drop-down menu...
That may well be, but the Blu-ray standard doesnít officially support 25p, while it does support 24p. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Video.

To answer the original question, yes, I would definitely shoot 24p if my intended destination was a Blu-ray disc. Though I would downsize the sources to 1080p24p before even taking them to Vegas. Iíd probably use HandBrake for that. It does a better job downsizing than anything that comes with Vegas.

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Old November 16th, 2015, 11:18 AM   #9
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

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Originally Posted by Adam Stanislav View Post
That may well be, but the Blu-ray standard doesnít officially support 25p, while it does support 24p. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Video.
It supports 25p in a 50i stream with 2:2 pulldown applied.
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Old November 16th, 2015, 05:36 PM   #10
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

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Originally Posted by Adam Stanislav View Post
That may well be, but the Blu-ray standard doesnít officially support 25p, while it does support 24p. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Video.

To answer the original question, yes, I would definitely shoot 24p if my intended destination was a Blu-ray disc. Though I would downsize the sources to 1080p24p before even taking them to Vegas. Iíd probably use HandBrake for that. It does a better job downsizing than anything that comes with Vegas.

Adam
Thanks Adam, I do have handbrake but have never used it and am interested in possibly giving it a try. Would you be able to give some guidance on the best settings to use to down size?

Thanks for your help.
Andy
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Old November 17th, 2015, 08:57 AM   #11
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

I just usually pick the High Profile, MP4, H264 (x264), Framerate same as source, H.264 level 4.1. But I do not claim to be an expert. Here is an interesting tutorial: https://mattgadient.com/2013/06/12/a...andbrake-0-9-9
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Old November 17th, 2015, 09:30 AM   #12
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

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It supports 25p in a 50i stream with 2:2 pulldown applied.
Well, yes, you can convert 25p to 50i, but whatís the point of converting progressive to interlaced? 24p is the same as classical cinema, and it works equally well on both sides of the Atlantic, and everywhere else. Plus, after decades of watching films we have been conditioned into thinking 24 fps as what cinema looks like. Our brains associate 50i and 60i with a compromise, lesser quality. Not that we analyze it on the conscious level, it is just how most of us (I mean humans in general, not just film/video makers) tend to perceive it: Film good, TV bad. :)

Iím not talking from a technical perspective, but from a psychological perspective. Sure, when making DVDs, we had to (and sometimes still have to) go with 50i and 60i because of the technological limitations of the DVD format. But with Blu-ray? It frees us from these limitations because we finally have a way of making videos and films the same way. I say 24p all the way.

Adam
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Old November 18th, 2015, 05:43 PM   #13
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

Looking good with Handbrake.

Looks like the best option is to edit in 4k in Vegas and output in XAVCS (same codec as in camera) and then down size in handbrake to 1080 before loading into Sony Architect pro 6 and burning to Blu-Ray.

My problem in Vegas seems to be rendering from the timeline in Sony AVC via the Blu-Ray template which produces the pulsating image on the bright parts of the image.
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Old November 21st, 2015, 05:52 AM   #14
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Re: Film in 25p or 24p for Blu-Ray

I'd assume that 25p will become 25Psf on Blue Ray. You see 25p all the time on 50i, it's not suddenly interlace video, the temporal aspect remains the same, just the lines are divided between the two sets of fields to make up the progressive frame.
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