How do I render 4K video in Vegas Pro 13?

[Norris Combs]

Hi,
I just finished editing some 4K video from my Sony RX10 III.
In the template of Vegas Pro 13, under Sony AVC, the highest resolution is only 1920 x 1080.
Thanks,

[Mark Watson]

Use Sony XAVC / XAVC S (*.mxf; *.mp4), then choose the specific resolution/frame rate you want.

I use XAVC Intra 3840x2160 29.97p mostly.

[Norris Combs]

How is XAVC different and/or better than avc or mp4? My intention is to keep the highest resolution possible. I'd like to be able to play back the video on my computer. I use VLC.
Thank you!

[Mark Watson]

The difference is that AVC only goes up to 1920x1080 resolution. If you want to render out 4K, then XAVC will do that.

If you check the box for "Match project settings", and your project is 4K, the only option that comes up is the XAVC.

Mark

Edit: Sorry, I was ASSUMING the RX10 video file format was XAVC. Looks like MP4. So, you might get a different result when you click the box for "Match Project Properties". If that's the case, then try the ones that are listed from that filter result.

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Mark Watson

The difference is that AVC only goes up to 1920x1080 resolution. If you want to render out 4K, then XAVC will do that.

If you check the box for "Match project settings", and your project is 4K, the only option that comes up is the XAVC.

Mark

Edit: Sorry, I was ASSUMING the RX10 video file format was XAVC. Looks like MP4. So, you might get a different result when you click the box for "Match Project Properties". If that's the case, then try the ones that are listed from that filter result.

I think you are confusing the wrapper and the codec. The RX10 III 4K video files are recoded in XAVC S MP4. XAVC S is just a variant of H264. The XAVC codec is much better than the other H264 codecs in Vegas Pro.

So you render in exactly the same codec as the camera used for 4K!

[Norris Combs]

The resolution from the camera is 3840 x 2160 x 32, 29.970p, so I'll select that. But, there are 2 "types", one referred to as "intra", the other's called "long". Which one should I choose? What's the difference?
Thank you!!

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Norris Combs

The resolution from the camera is 3840 x 2160 x 32, 29.970p, so I'll select that. But, there are 2 "types", one referred to as "intra", the other's called "long". Which one should I choose? What's the difference?
Thank you!!

The video you shot with your RX10 was XAVC S. Just choose that (it is "long"). Intra requires a much higher bitrate. Note - choose XAVC S (it is at the bottom of your choices), not XAVC. There is only one variant for XAVC S.

[Norris Combs]

Thanks!! Much appreciated.

[Norris Combs]

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

The video you shot with your RX10 was XAVC S. Just choose that (it is "long"). Intra requires a much higher bitrate. Note - choose XAVC S (it is at the bottom of your choices), not XAVC. There is only one variant for XAVC S.

The resulting file has the .mxf at the end. It's unplayable by either VLC or Power DVD Ultra. I searched around for a solution, and tried out a "mxf to mp4" converter by brorsoft, that worked. But the new .mp4 file (203 MB) is much smaller than the .mxf file (2.46 GB), so I assume the quality is not as good. Is there any way to play the .mxf file without having to convert it to any other format?
Thanks,

Edit: I just d/l a trial version of Aiseesoft Blu-ray player. It plays .mxf files, but the video stutters, maybe that's due to my laptop and not the player itself.

[Phil Lee]

Hi

To render out 4K try this:

Select under MainConcept AVC/AAC the template Internet HD 1080P, then click 'Customise Template', don't be tempted to select a different template to customise, for example if you select a Blu-ray template, it tries to hold you to the specs of Blu-Ray so will not allow 4K and will error on trying to render.

Under frame size, change this to custom frame size, add the 4K resolution of 3840x2160 in the width and height boxes. Make sure profile says 'High'

Select the correct frame rate, note you can type in a frame rate, for example if needing 50/60P. Select the field order as required, this is always progressive on 4K footage.

Change the bit rates to suit, for good quality go for max 135,000,000 and average as 100,000,000 (type in if not in the drop down list), then render, this creates an MP4 that should play no problems. Experiment with other bit-rates if required.

Regards

Phil

[Norris Combs]

Thanks very much Phil for that step by step! I will follow that tonight.

[Norris Combs]

So I did a render of the .mxf file, following Phil's advice above. The resulting .mp4 file is of excellent quality. Size is 3.44 GB, video length is only 5 minutes, but it took 6 hours! Maybe because I chose high bitrates 135,000,000 Max, 100,000,000 Avg, as suggested by Phil, also I selected 2-pass rendering, for sure that added to the time. Maybe my laptop is not heavy duty enough? i7 5500U CPU, 2.40 Ghz, 8 GB RAM

Thanks for any comments,

[Mark Watson]

That's really slow. Laptops nowadays are fast enough that rendering a file like yours could be done in near real time.

I run a laptop with i7-4790K @ 4.00GHz and 32GB of RAM. Does pretty good until you pile on special effects with 4K video.

One of the best and easiest ways to speed things up is to put your file you want rendered on a separate drive than where you're rendering it to. I have two 1TB SSDs on the laptop, so I will usually try to put the project files on a portable USB 3 drive and then render it to my SSD. Once the project is done, I move the renders off the SSD so there's space for the next project. You need to have some headroom on your drives, also. I like to keep about 20% free space, otherwise those portable drives seem to start getting slower. Another thing I found with Sony Vegas is when I jumped from a 16GB machine to 32GB, Vegas ran really good and I think it helped my render times, but can't be sure since I also upgraded my video card at the same time (NVIDIA Quadro K3100M).

One more thing, don't use 5400 RPM drives. I had a Toshiba Satellite laptop and it was a dog with those slow ass drives. Working with HDV and Cineform files back then really sucked the fun out of playing with video files.

I have found 4TB portable drives on the shelf now, so I've started adding some of those to the collection of WD HDDs. Bad thing is if one goes down, that's a lot of media to lose.

Mark

[Norris Combs]

Mark,

Thanks for your post. You pointed out a few things that slowed me down. The project file and the rendered file are both on the same hard drive (the laptop's), AND, the hard drive is almost out of space. What is the model of your laptop, where did you buy it from?

[Mark Watson]

I've been buying Sager laptops since 2008. This is my 3rd, got it in 2015 when I got the Sony FS7.
Not sure what the actual model number is, but it's a 17" model. You can check their web-site and basically you start by choosing a screen size, then a model, then you customize it. You get lots of CPU, graphics adapters, memory and hard drive options. This one ran me about $3500 as I recall. I recommend getting the 3 year warranty. I haven't really researched much of what the others offer lately, but whatever you do, be sure to research the graphics adapter, to see if it's a good fit for your NLE.

VideoGuys offer advice on laptops and desktops for video editing. They have a HP Z laptop for about $4K that has a 17" UHD monitor.

HP Laptop Workstations - VideoGuys.com

A couple of things I like about these Sagers it they don't have ANY bloatware on them and they come with a complete set of DVDs of all the system software for a fresh install if needed.

When I ordered this last one, I wanted it shipped to a 2-star hotel somewhere in the desert of Nevada. I got phone calls from my bank and then from Sager, to confirm my identity. The guy from Sager told me he was the tech who built my 2011 machine. He wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be using this for gaming, as apparently the video card is not good for that. I told him it was for editing 4K video and he said it would do that just great.

The 2008 laptop was just crazy heavy and about 2 inches thick. Going through customs at the airport the guy asked me, "What is this?" It's a laptop. "No it's not, I see many laptops and this is not a laptop."

He made me power it up. The power brick weighed about 3 pounds by itself. It had 3 hard drives, two desktop sized video cards in SLI configuration and a desktop CPU, plus a tv tuner built in. Lots of cooling fans. Had two DVI plugs on the back and cables that allowed it to drive a total of 3 external monitors.


Mark