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What Happens in Vegas...
...stays in Vegas! This PC-based editing app is a safe bet with these tips.


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Old December 2nd, 2005, 10:18 PM   #1
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Compressing after rendering

Hi all,


Well I've been toying with Vegas for a year now , no complain about the app here.

the thing is I always struggle when it comes to compress it afterwards. Most of my projects will be for online viewing so I usually go for WMV or Mpeg.

Now I see other people who have video on their website and let me tell you. We have practically the same vids out there , meaning that they will have a 2:30 min Mpeg video in 320x240 with a solid quality look to it while my project with the same specs end up being to wash out for my taste (figuratively speaking).

Do any of you know any good tutorial as to best encode with the widely used programs out there (media encoder, tmpegnc , vdub etc...)

They must know some secrets that I don't ,otherwise how to explain such a difference?

Thanks

Phil
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Old December 2nd, 2005, 10:53 PM   #2
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My work flow for MPEG or WMV is this; render clips to AVI, put clips together for new render-set bit rate according to time (I.E. 2 hours equals XXX average bitrate with AC3 audio). As for WMV I set it for either 256 or 512 depending on what it is and how long it is and just go from there. Remember the more you squeeze it the lesser the quality especially WMV.
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Old December 3rd, 2005, 08:12 AM   #3
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You should also color correct or use the other effects to adjust the video for the computer screen (which is different from outputting to a TV). Adjust out the "washed out" problem.
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Old December 3rd, 2005, 10:57 AM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe Gosselin
Hi all,


Well I've been toying with Vegas for a year now , no complain about the app here.

the thing is I always struggle when it comes to compress it afterwards. Most of my projects will be for online viewing so I usually go for WMV or Mpeg.

Now I see other people who have video on their website and let me tell you. We have practically the same vids out there , meaning that they will have a 2:30 min Mpeg video in 320x240 with a solid quality look to it while my project with the same specs end up being to wash out for my taste (figuratively speaking).

Do any of you know any good tutorial as to best encode with the widely used programs out there (media encoder, tmpegnc , vdub etc...)

They must know some secrets that I don't ,otherwise how to explain such a difference?

Thanks

Phil
Phil
A few differences are gamma and setup. The web has no setup, so if you have a video that is correctly set to 7.5 IRE, and you play it in Windows Media or most other computer players, the blacks are 'stretched' which causes your image to appear to be washed out.
Glenn Chan wrote a very nice tutorial on this subject.
http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?i...0-90d2f8de9fc1
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Old December 3rd, 2005, 03:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe Gosselin
Now I see other people who have video on their website and let me tell you. We have practically the same vids out there , meaning that they will have a 2:30 min Mpeg video in 320x240 with a solid quality look to it while my project with the same specs end up being to wash out for my taste (figuratively speaking).
in many respects, evaluating web video is no different than evaluating ntsc video... the monitor must always be adjusted correctly in both cases: http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/photoshop...alibration.htm

in particular, pay close attention to: http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/calibrati...d_contrast.htm ...if you are trying that procedure on an lcd monitor, you will notice that it's impossible to get the proper black level, so how do you handle that situation in vegas? there are a lot of lcd monitors on the web these days, and no doubt most of 'em are set up way too bright.

next take a look at how some applications can tweak the gamma incorrectly: http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/evaluatio...rror/index.htm ...so there could also be issues with how the media player you are using is affecting the gamma that you see in the video clip... in particular, i can see gamma differences between clips embedded in windows media player on a page, vs. full-screen viewing of those exact same clips... i can provide a url if you want to see it on one of my sites.

so it's all very complicated... i currently frame-serve 'net video encoding off of the vegas timeline to procoder, how does that affect the gamma? if you export an avi first, then encode it seperately with the windows media encoder, how is the gamma affected? what if you use sorenson squeeze? etc...

ultimately i think that every situation could be different... but one thing you can count on is that you should never put mpeg1 or mpeg2 video on the web, it's way too inefficient... if you were referring to mpeg4, make sure that it's h.264, not the generic qt mpeg4 that's been around for years.
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Old December 3rd, 2005, 08:26 PM   #6
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Hi all ,


Well that's a nice surprise , I just got in from work and found all those replies.

Thanks Spot , I will read what Glenn has to say. I shoot a lot of nightclub video right now so black has got to stay black otherwise ...well you know.

Dan: Yes I was referring to Mpeg4 , in your opinion what is the best software out there to encode in mpeg4.?

This post was a bit pre-emptive , I am in the middle of a project right now.I will apply what I will read from the links you included. Later on this week I will post the project on my website and let you know

Thank you for your time

Phil

**********************

First edit ..... WOW !!!!

Thank you Spot for leading to Glenn tutorial , I can't believe I didn't use that before , live an learn I guess. Couple of questions though.

1:How do I know my cam got "superwhites" , looking at the waveform doesn't really make it clear.

2: Cranking down the "input end" really puts up the number of pixel , is this normal behavior ?

Thanks
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Last edited by Philippe Gosselin; December 3rd, 2005 at 09:21 PM.
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Old December 4th, 2005, 07:10 PM   #7
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the only mpeg4 that i would ever encode is h.264, and i'd use the nero encoder for that... for the old-skool mpeg4, like the mac guys use, take a look at sorenson squeeze.

be careful of that studio rgb to computer rgb setting in vegas... it can blow the highs out real easy, but it could also be a good idea for dark nightclub footage.
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Old December 4th, 2005, 07:15 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Euritt
the only mpeg4 that i would ever encode is h.264, and i'd use the nero encoder for that... for the old-skool mpeg4, like the mac guys use, take a look at sorenson squeeze.

be careful of that studio rgb to computer rgb setting in vegas... it can blow the highs out real easy, but it could also be a good idea for dark nightclub footage.
Totally concur.
Nero is easy to frameserve to, and provides for very pretty encodes. IMO, they've got the best h.264 encoding going in the PC world, and it's darn fast, too.
http://www.vasst.com/search.aspx?text=Frameserve has an article on frameserving from Vegas to Nero. It's quite detailed, and should get anyone there very quickly.
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Old December 4th, 2005, 10:37 PM   #9
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Well I've heard about framserving but after reading the tutorial that you sent me to Spot I found that it looks quite easier than I thought. I am still editing so the render will have to wait but this is very useful information , thank you gentleman.

Dan : Glenn does mention about studio rgb→computer rgb but thanks for the heads up.

Again I will let you know about the progress ini this post

Thank you for your time
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Old December 4th, 2005, 11:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
1:How do I know my cam got "superwhites" , looking at the waveform doesn't really make it clear.

2: Cranking down the "input end" really puts up the number of pixel , is this normal behavior ?
1- I assume you're using Sony DV codec, which is the Vegas default. The article covers this.

If you follow the article, take a look at the waveform display. If you see dots above 100, then your camera records superwhites.
Or you can look at the histogram (under video scopes), which isn't affected by video scopes settings. Anything above 235 is superwhite.

2- I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If you move the "input end" slider down, that is like increasing exposure.

I hope that helps.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 12:03 AM   #11
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Hi Glenn,

Well to be honest with you I am not sure if I use Sony DV codec , I just got Vegas 6 and can't find the codec choices anywhere in the Preferences window???

I just saw your video and WOW !!! , what a great job , I am sure you made new friends since then HIHIHI.

Did you write any other tutorials other than the one I know , anything on color correction perhaps.

Thanks

Phil
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Old December 5th, 2005, 12:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
next take a look at how some applications can tweak the gamma incorrectly: http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/evaluatio...rror/index.htm ...so there could also be issues with how the media player you are using is affecting the gamma that you see in the video clip... in particular, i can see gamma differences between clips embedded in windows media player on a page, vs. full-screen viewing of those exact same clips... i can provide a url if you want to see it on one of my sites.
Hi Dan,

I would caution you about all of the information on that site as some of it contains inaccuracies (in particular, when it comes to the whole gamma issue). see http://www.poynton.com/notes/Timo/Concerning_Timo.html

As far as the gamma differences, I'd be interested in that url. I wouldn't know where the error comes from, but I would assume that WMP would decode the same way whether in a web page or in full screen. It may be that your video card is changing the colors of the video overlay.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 12:06 AM   #13
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Phillipe:

Sorry if the screenshot in the article is not very clear. You need to scroll down in the preferences window to find those settings.

By default, Vegas 6 will use the Sony DV codec.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 02:59 PM   #14
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I too use vegas & I was depressed about the quality of my latest 3hr DVD so I tried tmpegnc. I am extremely happy with the results. If you haven't tried this encoder give it a try. I think the results are immediately noticed that is after the render. :)
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Old December 5th, 2005, 03:06 PM   #15
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Hi Richard ,


Well you might want to reconsider because what Glenn wrote about Nero recode is most invaluable. Tmpegnc only compress in mpeg1 and mpeg2 , from what I've seen so far mpeg 4 is way more impressive in turn of compression/quality and it looks so easy to use.
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