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Old December 10th, 2005, 11:12 AM   #1
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Mixing SD&HDV footages for both SD&HDV a problem?

i know that i'll need to mix both SD&HDV footages for a wedding coming up. not everyone at the wedding will be HDV obviously, but i'll be using the XL H1. so for most of the primary edits i can use that footages i have but sometimes there will be different angles that other people have captured that i want edited into the wedding video.

how would i do it? up-res the SD footage to 1440x1080? i need to output to BOTH SD for DVD and .wmv-HD.
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Old December 10th, 2005, 07:11 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yi Fong Yu
i know that i'll need to mix both SD&HDV footages for a wedding coming up. not everyone at the wedding will be HDV obviously, but i'll be using the XL H1. so for most of the primary edits i can use that footages i have but sometimes there will be different angles that other people have captured that i want edited into the wedding video.

how would i do it? up-res the SD footage to 1440x1080? i need to output to BOTH SD for DVD and .wmv-HD.
Why not use the SD clips for 'Picture-in-Picture' type effects with either multiple floating SD clips over a mono BG, or letterboxed individual SD clips... all within 16:9 HD project settings.

You can render to whatever you want once your project is finalized...

There's so much you could do in a HD 16:9 project with 4:3 or 16:9 SD material - it's almost SCARY!!!

BTW - I wouldn't uprezz any SD material to HD resolution, unless you want the pixelated, fuzzy, indistinct result for artistic purposes.
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Old December 10th, 2005, 07:55 PM   #3
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The easiest way to mix widescreen HDV with 4x3 SD material is to keep it all in a 4x3 SD project and lop the sides off the widescreen footage. If you try to do widescreen HD output and expand the SD footage to fill the frame from left to right, it's going to be obvious to the viewers that something's wrong when you switch back and forth between cameras.
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Old December 10th, 2005, 09:38 PM   #4
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if i keep it SD, how would i export to wmv-HD?
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Old December 11th, 2005, 06:30 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yi Fong Yu
if i keep it SD, how would i export to wmv-HD?
You don't, unless you want real crap...

If you make your project 4:3 SD and thereby crop your 16:9 HDV material, you would be wasting your time rendering a WMV9 HD version.

Seems like so many folks want to throw away the HD quality advantage. Shoot SD for SD stuff, with a good SD camcorder.

Of course if you want your video to look no better, with no apparent advantage to anyone (especially those who'll be giving you SD) of shooting 16:9 HDV, then you should make your video match the lowest common denominator.

Don't want to rock the boat and show folks what HDV can do in direct comparison to SD material...
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Old December 11th, 2005, 05:03 PM   #6
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well that's my question then. if i keep everything HDV (without upressing SD footage) then after i'm done i want to export to:
1. mpeg2 for DVDs.
2. 1 WMV-HD file w/5.1
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Old December 11th, 2005, 07:14 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Yi Fong Yu
well that's my question then. if i keep everything HDV (without upressing SD footage) then after i'm done i want to export to:
1. mpeg2 for DVDs.
2. 1 WMV-HD file w/5.1
Hmmm...

I get the feeling you'd like a tutorial on how to do this, and I can relate to the fact that there isn't really any resource 'freely' available on how to go about it.

Apart from searching through the threads here, you could check the VASST site for appropriate info... but in the meantime, you can get started by:

Openning Vegas > Select File > Select Properties > Select the appropriate HDV format from the 'Template' drop down list. In the Project Properties dialogue that appears, change your audio setting to '5.1 surround' and set the appropriate bitrate. (double check all other settings are at optimal, just in case!! i.e. de-interlace is set to interpolation, render quality is best etc.)

Add clips to the Media Pool.

Place clips on the timeline to create individual tracks.

Use 'Track Motion' to adjust the SD clips for size and any motion effects etc. you may require, by typing in the SD dimensions in the 'size' dialogues and setting keyframe markers for motion.

Add any colour correction, effects, titling etc. to the clips or tracks as required...

Once you've got everything sorted and the project completed to your satisfaction, you can then save your project.

All you need to do then is 'Render As' whatever format you wish to output...
There's plenty of threads here on the best settings for DVD MPEG2 from HDV, and WMV9 HD from HDV.

Just remember to double check the 'Custom Settings' for the template that you choose from the dropdown Template list, because the audio settings for 5.1 surround aren't default in most cases, and it's always prudent to check that render settings are optimal!!

You won't need to create seperate Vegas files to achieve what you are after.

As long as you have the original SD and HDV files, you can use one single Vegas project to create any number of different HD/HDV/SD variations that you may ever want.

I hope that goes some way to giving you what you're after...
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Old December 12th, 2005, 07:57 AM   #8
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yes that does help. thank you v. much steve! =).

but i'm also wondering how people would approach this problem.
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Old December 12th, 2005, 08:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Crisdale
Hmmm...

I get the feeling you'd like a tutorial on how to do this, and I can relate to the fact that there isn't really any resource 'freely' available on how to go about it.

Apart from searching through the threads here, you could check the VASST site for appropriate info... but in the meantime, you can get started by:

Openning Vegas > Select File > Select Properties > Select the appropriate HDV format from the 'Template' drop down list. In the Project Properties dialogue that appears, change your audio setting to '5.1 surround' and set the appropriate bitrate. (double check all other settings are at optimal, just in case!! i.e. de-interlace is set to interpolation, render quality is best etc.)

Add clips to the Media Pool.

Place clips on the timeline to create individual tracks.

Use 'Track Motion' to adjust the SD clips for size and any motion effects etc. you may require, by typing in the SD dimensions in the 'size' dialogues and setting keyframe markers for motion.

Add any colour correction, effects, titling etc. to the clips or tracks as required...

Once you've got everything sorted and the project completed to your satisfaction, you can then save your project.

All you need to do then is 'Render As' whatever format you wish to output...
There's plenty of threads here on the best settings for DVD MPEG2 from HDV, and WMV9 HD from HDV.

Just remember to double check the 'Custom Settings' for the template that you choose from the dropdown Template list, because the audio settings for 5.1 surround aren't default in most cases, and it's always prudent to check that render settings are optimal!!

You won't need to create seperate Vegas files to achieve what you are after.

As long as you have the original SD and HDV files, you can use one single Vegas project to create any number of different HD/HDV/SD variations that you may ever want.

I hope that goes some way to giving you what you're after...
Steve, if your final destination would be Standard SD DVD, would you recommend using the Vegas SD 16:9 Template and scale down (Zoom in) the HD footage accoringly then output to standard SD DVD?
This way you can work with your SD footage like normal, and use the HD footage more for better video, since the final destination is SD DVD rather than the opposite of Yi's HD final destination.
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Old December 14th, 2005, 12:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yi Fong Yu
yes that does help. thank you v. much steve! =).

but i'm also wondering how people would approach this problem.
You are trying to make Gold out of Lead. It simply canít be done. If you want WMV-HD, then the SD footage is going to look bad at full res no matter what you do. HDV is 4.5x the resolution of SD! Not twice, not three times, but four and a half times. Thatís a big difference. Blowing SD up that big is going to be obviously inferior to the HDV footage in the same movie. The suggestion that Steve made to use SD as PIPís is the only way to preserve HD resolution.

What I would do is crop the DV footage to 16:9 and intercut it with the downconverted HDV footage and deliver in SD DVD Widescreen only. IMHO, youíre really not set up to deliver a quality HD wmv file unless you have all HDV cameras. Stick with SD delivery until you do. You might want to experiment to see what you can do in post but I think its going to be very noticeable.

~jr
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Old December 16th, 2005, 08:48 AM   #11
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Widescreen SD + HDV ?

Would you handle widescreen SD mixed with HDV the same way as 4x3 SD with HDV?
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Old December 16th, 2005, 09:46 AM   #12
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Widescreen SD has the same resolution as SD (720x480 NTSC) just with an anamorphic pixel aspect of 1.2121. So yes, I would handle it the same way and deliver in SD. Going from 740x480 to 1920x1080 is a big difference any way you cut it. Going to 1280x720 (HD1) might not be that bad. I have a Sony Z1 so Iím always thinking 1080i but 720p is also HD and isnít such a stretch (no pun intended) ;-)

~jr
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Old December 22nd, 2005, 04:47 AM   #13
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im surprised noones mentioned downscalig the HDV to 720p and upscaling the SD footage to 720p
I do this all the time with Z1 and DVX100's Mind u i have to dumb down the DVX footage to match colour with the Z1...

Both would look pretty well matched and you wouldnt be losing too much image quality by downscaling. On top of that, youd be able to fit more on ur WMV as it woudnt take up as much space as ur 1080i footage, and for me, personally, i feel that 720p looks much nicer than 1080i... but thats jsut me.. im a progressive scan junky..
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Old December 22nd, 2005, 07:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson
im surprised noones mentioned downscalig the HDV to 720p and upscaling the SD footage to 720p
I do this all the time with Z1 and DVX100's Mind u i have to dumb down the DVX footage to match colour with the Z1...

Both would look pretty well matched and you wouldnt be losing too much image quality by downscaling. On top of that, youd be able to fit more on ur WMV as it woudnt take up as much space as ur 1080i footage, and for me, personally, i feel that 720p looks much nicer than 1080i... but thats jsut me.. im a progressive scan junky..
Good suggestion Peter!

It's worth a try...

I've only ever mixed 1080i and 720p, but it doesn't mean one couldn't 'get away with' mixing decent SD with 1080i at 720p. I suppose creating a 720p project template, then just adding both sets of clips to the timeline with 'scale video to project settings' selected would make the mix up/down pretty easy...
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Old December 22nd, 2005, 07:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot
Steve, if your final destination would be Standard SD DVD, would you recommend using the Vegas SD 16:9 Template and scale down (Zoom in) the HD footage accoringly then output to standard SD DVD?
This way you can work with your SD footage like normal, and use the HD footage more for better video, since the final destination is SD DVD rather than the opposite of Yi's HD final destination.
Not sure I've fully grasped exactly what you're meaning Michael... The word "zoom" in relation to the HDV material does give me a clue however. It is totally possible to "zoom into" HDV on the standard DVD 16:9 template. Just remember that there are some caveats, as noted by those who've done it.

Namely: getting carried away with the amount of "zoom" can lead to very visible macro blocks. Even though 1080 HDV is essentially four times the pixel information of SD, doesn't mean you can push to the equivalent of 200% enlargement.

You may even find that some clips with less motion and broader areas with good lighting will be better suited to the "zoom" than very busy, motion loaded and poorer lit material where the Gain has been pushed pretty high.

And make sure you use CFHD avi format versions of your HDV material, because the double compression from using m2t straight from the camera won't help the cause.

Hope that's close to what you were after...
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