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Old January 19th, 2006, 12:59 PM   #1
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Need help with computer freeze

Hello all,

I am looking for help as I attempt my first capture and edit with HD in V6c.

I captured an mt2 file which is about 3.7 GIG. When I open Vegas and click on the file in the explorer window, my PC freezes for about 3-4 minutes. Sometimes it comes back, sometimes it doesn't. If I try and right click to open the file in the trimmer window it freezes. Once I have been able to get the file on the timeline to create the intermediate, but then it froze.

Im new to this forum, and it seems pretty active, so Im hoping someone might have an idea whats going on. Im not sure if this is a problem with my computer or something else.

Thanks,
Brian
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Old January 19th, 2006, 01:05 PM   #2
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Tell us a little about your puter. Helps to know what your setup is. Will be glad to help in any way we can.. John
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Old January 19th, 2006, 01:15 PM   #3
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Sell it and buy a MAC.

At least that's what I did. I had a super fast 64bit, liquid cooled computer with Vegas and just could not get it working. It would freeze on me all of the time. So I sold it, bought a mac and FCP and have never looked back.

Now, I don't feel at all that your problem would be a vegas issue because I loved Vegas. It is going to be a hardware issue. It could be your capture card, or sytem preferences.

Again, without knowing your system specs, I would again suggest... buy a Mac and become a "switcher." :-)

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Old January 19th, 2006, 01:24 PM   #4
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specs

Sorry, forgot to post the specs

CPU P4/3.2CGHz 800M 478P/512K HT RT Gig
MB ASUS P4C800-E DELUXE CANTERWOOD
VGA MATROXIP750 64MB AGP8X RTL
DDRAM TRANSCEND|PC3200 512MB RTL (x 2)
WINDOWS XP SP2
VEGAS 6.0c

Sorry, Mac is not an option for me as I am an en-gin-eer and need a PC for other applications.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 01:30 PM   #5
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what type of capturing device are you using?
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Old January 19th, 2006, 01:37 PM   #6
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Im am using the Vegas internal capture application and am capturing directly from the FX1 via firewire.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 02:39 PM   #7
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Same Problem

Brian:

I had a similar problem last night. I captured a 2.7 g 4 minute run from FX1 to my USB 2 Hard drive, using the Vegas HD Capture. At the end of capture everything froze up. I had to restart system, and when I went to look at file, it was still there. When I selected it in Vegas everything froze up again. So I was thinking the file was corrupted and confirmed that. I recaptured same 4 minutes on an onboard hard drive, and every thing worked fine. I have noticed problems capturing to all my USB hard drives, in both Vegas and PP 1.51.

And no, we don't have to go to Mac...we have better things to do with our money..

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Old January 19th, 2006, 04:56 PM   #8
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I'm getting so many freezes and hangs with 6.0c my current approach is to render to intermediate and fall back to 5.x. (see the post "minimum system req for vegas" from yesterday).

One question not answered - I notice Brian the O.P. also has 1GB RAM, with a similar system config to mine.

Are people with more RAM having any better experience with 6.0c or HDV?

I wish I could make more use of the v6 features, but I can't get it to run long enough to even get 10% into a project. At this point it's just functioning as a horribly buggy capture and transcoder.

At this moment my task manager shows 1 instance of v6 that hung on opening a project, another that hung after about 20 minutes of editing, and an instance of v5 that has been running fine for the last couple hours.

BTW, with no batch capture I'm capturing whole tapes, so, yes, I have large file sizes of 5-12GB. But similar file sizes in DV on 4.x and 5.x were never a problem.

No, I'm not mac-tempted either :-) My hardware has been GREAT like all PCs I've owned over 15 years. Sorry it didn't work out for you, Byron.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 05:15 PM   #9
 
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All of our machines except laptops have 2 gigs, some have more. I don't see any performance differences on the 1 gig laptops and the desktops with additional RAM that could be attributed to RAM access. It makes some difference in previewing stills and how things buffer, but overall, opening of files shouldn't make a lot of difference. By example, my 3.06 gig laptop was used to finish out a 2.5 hour HD project, all in CineForm, average file size was 13 gig, as there were 6 tapes captured for this project. No problems at all, other than occasional latent starts, and I'm somewhat used to that. I've got RAM set to 400 meg on the laptop, if that helps.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 08:54 PM   #10
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more info

It does look like my m2t file was corrupt. I re-captued and the PC is now not locking up. This time however I only captured about 10 minutes, to purposely keep the file size smaller just to see if I could get it to work.

I downloaded the Gearshift trial, created a proxy file using it (I did not create a Cineform file), and shifted gears. So far it seems like I am editing as easy as when I was using SD.

Next Ill try shifting back to the m2t file and try rendering it.

BTW, I read on the forum that scene detection is not included (or the ability to log in/out points for individual clips) for HD capture.

Question 1) If I find that its easier to work in smaller chucks of the videos files, does anyone know if there is a third party tool that would allow for max files sizes or in/out points when capturing?

Question 2) The Cineform file is much bigger than the proxy file. What are the reasons for creating and using the Cineform file as opposed to the proxy file?

Thanks for all your inputs,
Brian
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Old January 19th, 2006, 09:10 PM   #11
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m2t v Cineform intermediate file size

This is the problem I have too. The m2t file is about 30 % the size of the Cineform intermediate file of the same duration. I suppose it is because the m2t is an mpg file, which is traditionally so hard to edit, that we are willing to edit the much larger Cineform .avi files. But, Pinnacle Liquid does a great job editing the m2v (video portion of the m2t ), without the need for an intermediate file. This same capability is available in Pinnacle Studio Plus 10. Pinnacle is working with some bugs in Studio right now, but for handling simple editing, it seems to be pretty clean. Most people won't look at it because its deemed a consumer editor, but might be worth looking at.

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Old January 20th, 2006, 12:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Karr
...Question 2) The Cineform file is much bigger than the proxy file. What are the reasons for creating and using the Cineform file as opposed to the proxy file?
That one I know - you can edit cineform and render from it, it is an intermediate (not a proxy). With an intermediate you preserve quality sufficient for your final render. You render from the Cineform.

With a proxy you're editing something of lower quality (res.) that allows you to make all of your edit, transition, and processing decisions. DV is really quite good, and makes a great proxy for Vegas editing because V. does so very, very well with DV. Then, of course, you substitute the original M2T files for your DV for the final render.

It's not so surprising that the Cineform is 30-ish GB/hr, what's surprising is that HDV is only 13GB/hr. Remember, this is hi-def squeezed into the datarate of DV. That's 4.5x the data of DV.

I'd speculate that Sony is focusing development effort on smoother editing of HDV-native files, but I have no info to support that and those that do have info can't say. I sure hope so...
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Old January 20th, 2006, 07:45 AM   #13
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"With an intermediate you preserve quality sufficient for your final render. You render from the Cineform."


Seth,

Why though would you want to work in, and edit from, Cineform as opposed to working with the proxy and rendering using the m2t files?

It seems that the proxy/m2t file option would give you the best overall resolution?

Maybe this has to do with color correcting or other post edits that work better using the higher resolution Cineform file?


BTW, I got my first file rendered and up on the net last night!! www.AdventureOnline.TV/ch9.php
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Last edited by Brian Karr; January 20th, 2006 at 09:00 AM.
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Old January 20th, 2006, 11:41 AM   #14
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Cineform intermediate and DV proxy with final render from M2T produce the same result for resolution and quality.

It is more a matter of workflow that's going to determine your choice.

Possible workflows:

1) Capture from HDV with the Cineform codec (this is the one that you buy in addition to Vegas, CFHD). Pros - you're ready to edit right after capture in V5 or V6. Render straight from the timeline. You never really have to deal with M2T. There are no "extra" renders. Cons - CFHD costs more, uses 3x the disk space as M2T.

2) Capture from HDV with the V6 internal capture program as M2T. Render to Cineform AVI using Vegas 6.x's included codec, possibly with help from Gearshift. Edit Cineform on the timeline. Pros - render straight from the timeline. No extra cost beyond 6.x. Cons - extra render. V6 may be unstable for you.

3) Capture from HDV with the V6 internal capture program as M2T. Render to DV using Vegas, probably with help from Gearshift. Edit DV on the timeline. Sub in the M2T before rendering. Pros - edit on your laptop. Gearshift is inexpensive and getting better all the time. Cons - extra render. V6 may be unstable for you.

4) Capture and edit M2T with V6. Pros - no extra steps or pieces. No extra renders. Performance gets better with PC upgrades. Cons - most PCs will only provide a few frames per second, but adequate for some programs. V6 may be unstable for you.

All 4 above preserve HD through the final render. For SD workflows:

5) Shoot HDV. Capture SD using camera conversion. Edit with V4-5-6, deliver SD. Pros - no upgrade to V6. Shoot with the latest and greatest. Edit in familiar formats with familiar workflows. Cons - SD intermediate does not look as good as HD intermediate or renders from M2T.

6) Shoot HDV. Capture M2T with V6 internal capture. Render to DV. Edit DV, deliver SD. Pros and cons same as #5, except you do need V6 to cap M2T. You can color correct on your M2T to DV render, better at this stage.

To me it's all about workflow. I had oustanding workflow with V4-5, I'm looking forward to the time that I can have a similar experience with HDV.

BTW, lots of interesting info on the product faq page at cineform.com.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 01:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum
I wish I could make more use of the v6 features, but I can't get it to run long enough to even get 10% into a project. At this point it's just functioning as a horribly buggy capture and transcoder.

At this moment my task manager shows 1 instance of v6 that hung on opening a project, another that hung after about 20 minutes of editing, and an instance of v5 that has been running fine for the last couple hours.
Well, I wish I could edit this previous post. It does represent my experience, but after a looong talk with a buddy w/V6.0c I'm realizing that I did a system "upgrade" at about the same time as I went to V6... I need to "downgrade" the system and do some testing. V6 has been the *most* stable for him.

I had installed an older matrox 2-head card that he lent me, apparently there was a reason he wasn't using it :-)

Based on our discussion I'm hopeful that in about a week I'll have downgraded and tested, and purchased a new video card and installed, and be sailing smoothly? We'll see.
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