Sony Vegas + ATI's AVIVO? at DVinfo.net

Zachary Rand · January 27th, 2006, 10:43 AM

Hi everyone-

I was wondering if anyone knows if Vegas 6.0C can utilize ATI's AVIVO video technology to improve rendering speeds? Apparently, AVIVO can encode video files several times faster than even the fastest processors by using the power of ATI X1x00 series video cards. This would be a huge time saver for me, and I'm sure for many of you, too.

Don Bloom · January 27th, 2006, 11:18 AM

Vegas is strictly software based - cards make no meaningful improvement. Processor speed, RAM and fewer things running in the background make the difference.
(at least thats what I've found using Vegas since Ver 3)
Don

Laurence Kingston · January 27th, 2006, 12:54 PM

Vegas is still using VFW (Video For Windows) while Premier has just updated to a GPU approach with the new version of Premier Pro. This is a HUGE deal since it can use the hardware acceleration for things like previewing M2T video with color correction with little strain on the CPU. I'm not sure how much of it is theory and how much of it is practical at this point, but this is definately the way to do it.

I'm a long time Vegas User and this is the first time I've felt a twinge of jealousy for any other platform. Hopefully Vegas will update from it's VFW to the GPU approach with the next version.

Zachary Rand · January 27th, 2006, 01:32 PM

Hopefully Sony will take the same path at some point, because benchmarks of AVIVO show a dramatic improvement in rendering times (around 5x faster than the equivalent operation on an Athlon FX-57!!!).

Stephen Finton · January 27th, 2006, 01:42 PM

AVIVO is only controlled by a video transcoder program that ATI supplies with the card. Currently AVIVO is not supported by anything but this little program.

Laurence Kingston · January 27th, 2006, 03:26 PM

That is probably officially the case, but I think reality is probably a little more positive. I am currently running NVidea's PureVideo decoder on an ATI card that is several years old. It doesn't accelerate wmv playback, but it works beautifully on M2T video, dropping the CPU usage on my P4 3.06 from stuttering at 100% to absolutely smooth with less than 40%, deinterlacing and color correcting on the fly as it plays. If nothing else, this card would probably fly under the NVidea decoder, at least until ATI comes up with their own version.

Now if I could only do this acceleration from Vegas instead of just WMP10 I'd be happy!

I have another thread on the general HD editing forum asking if anyone is having any luck with this on Premier Pro seeing as it is one of their newly advertised features.

Zachary Rand · January 27th, 2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Finton

AVIVO is only controlled by a video transcoder program that ATI supplies with the card. Currently AVIVO is not supported by anything but this little program.

True, but maybe this could be added to Vegas at some point in the future as the technology progresses.

Laurence Kingston · January 27th, 2006, 04:06 PM

This is the technology Adobe is pursuing accross their product line. Hopefully Sony has the good sense to do the same!

Yi Fong Yu · February 27th, 2006, 09:41 PM

i've been wondering about this since the early years of 3D graphics advances (ati's r100s and nvidia's nv20s&30s.).

why not utilize&harness the power of GPUs?

i can see a VARIETY of 2D and 3D non-game applications taking FULL advantage of it. the possibilities would be endless. here we are nearly a decade of advances and we're *still* limited by convention (not by technology, not by a long shot).

what convention? the notion that people have of the following:
-that AGP or PCIe doesn't have good write back to hard disk so as to enable GPUs to render 3D polygon animation+lighting&shading in real time. imagine rendering toy story in real time 90min or 45min (cut in half by the pure power of GPUs).

-that vector-based or rasterized content creation or playback apps can't utilize full advantage of the GPU. imagine creating or playing back flash @10x its current speed and having thousands of shapes moving and not slowing down even on the fastest PCs because of GPU.

-that video content creation or playback can't be hardware accelerated. when i first saw the shading capabilities applied to 2D videos from an ATI demo, i knew that it was about time adobe/sonic foundry (back then) incoporated such features into their a/v apps+real-time rendering utilizeing GPUs. imaging HDV tapping into d3d or direct hardware acceleration access and .m2t's could be edited smoothly on a p3-850mhz (exaggerating to prove a point). or how about 1920x1080p playback no problem. it's still a struggle for a powerful machine to playback 1080p h.264 content (quicktime movie trailers). even with the special codecs installed for ".hdmov", it's still pretty slow on fast machines.

i just dunno why there are so many layers of distilled imagination/lack of will/lack of market/politics between us and the true next level of technology that has already been with us since 4-5 years ago. what're we waiting for?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 27th, 2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yi Fong Yu

i just dunno why there are so many layers of distilled imagination/lack of will/lack of market/politics between us and the true next level of technology that has already been with us since 4-5 years ago. what're we waiting for?

One, it's called capitalism, it's what makes our country great. We can either choose to go our own way, or choose to rely on partnerships. Vegas has *always* been independent.

Two, the moment you attach yourself to a specific piece of hardware, you take on significant tech support costs, hardware upgrades, downgrades, shifts in drivers/SDK's/support, or even the company remaining solvent or intact. Look at what happened to Canopus when Adobe decided to quit supporting third party hardware. Adobe realized their mistake due to their user base, but it was still a killer to Pinnacle and Adobe.
What about all the Adobe users that bought Pro Ones that never, ever worked?
What about folks that got tied to any piece of technology that never fully developed? Who pays for it? Sure, Sony could force their users to use specific hardware cards. Who decides who uses what? Who pays for the very expensive development? Who is responsible for tech support?
It's not politics, it's common sense that Vegas stays independent as long as possible. Current example? Vegas is still using old BMD drivers. Final Cut is using even older BMD drivers. Why? Because BMD keeps changing their tools and drivers, causing users to be confused, and guess who pays in the end for the tech support calls about "I updated my BMD drivers, and now Vegas doesn't work" calls?
You do.

Bob Benkosky · April 25th, 2006, 11:14 AM

Yea, I used the Magic Bullet 2.0 in After Effects along with color settings in MB suite instead of using Vegas because since I already needed MB, I just used the color suite as well and used the GPU selection rather than try Vegas afterwards. I believe Adobe's suite looks a tad better anyhow. Vegas is just really good at editing things together and proving 5.1 audio support very easily. Everything else takes forever to render in Vegas. I do love it though, couldn't edit without it.

January 27th, 2006, 10:43 AM	#1
Zachary Rand Tourist Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3	Sony Vegas + ATI's AVIVO? Hi everyone- I was wondering if anyone knows if Vegas 6.0C can utilize ATI's AVIVO video technology to improve rendering speeds? Apparently, AVIVO can encode video files several times faster than even the fastest processors by using the power of ATI X1x00 series video cards. This would be a huge time saver for me, and I'm sure for many of you, too.

February 27th, 2006, 09:41 PM	#9
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	i've been wondering about this since the early years of 3D graphics advances (ati's r100s and nvidia's nv20s&30s.). why not utilize&harness the power of GPUs? i can see a VARIETY of 2D and 3D non-game applications taking FULL advantage of it. the possibilities would be endless. here we are nearly a decade of advances and we're still limited by convention (not by technology, not by a long shot). what convention? the notion that people have of the following: -that AGP or PCIe doesn't have good write back to hard disk so as to enable GPUs to render 3D polygon animation+lighting&shading in real time. imagine rendering toy story in real time 90min or 45min (cut in half by the pure power of GPUs). -that vector-based or rasterized content creation or playback apps can't utilize full advantage of the GPU. imagine creating or playing back flash @10x its current speed and having thousands of shapes moving and not slowing down even on the fastest PCs because of GPU. -that video content creation or playback can't be hardware accelerated. when i first saw the shading capabilities applied to 2D videos from an ATI demo, i knew that it was about time adobe/sonic foundry (back then) incoporated such features into their a/v apps+real-time rendering utilizeing GPUs. imaging HDV tapping into d3d or direct hardware acceleration access and .m2t's could be edited smoothly on a p3-850mhz (exaggerating to prove a point). or how about 1920x1080p playback no problem. it's still a struggle for a powerful machine to playback 1080p h.264 content (quicktime movie trailers). even with the special codecs installed for ".hdmov", it's still pretty slow on fast machines. i just dunno why there are so many layers of distilled imagination/lack of will/lack of market/politics between us and the true next level of technology that has already been with us since 4-5 years ago. what're we waiting for? __________________ bow wow wow

April 25th, 2006, 11:14 AM	#11
Bob Benkosky Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lake Park, Florida Posts: 202	Yea, I used the Magic Bullet 2.0 in After Effects along with color settings in MB suite instead of using Vegas because since I already needed MB, I just used the color suite as well and used the GPU selection rather than try Vegas afterwards. I believe Adobe's suite looks a tad better anyhow. Vegas is just really good at editing things together and proving 5.1 audio support very easily. Everything else takes forever to render in Vegas. I do love it though, couldn't edit without it. __________________ http://www.veoh.com/channels/filmmaker My clips and films.

January 27th, 2006, 11:18 AM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Vegas is strictly software based - cards make no meaningful improvement. Processor speed, RAM and fewer things running in the background make the difference. (at least thats what I've found using Vegas since Ver 3) Don

January 27th, 2006, 12:54 PM	#3
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	Vegas is still using VFW (Video For Windows) while Premier has just updated to a GPU approach with the new version of Premier Pro. This is a HUGE deal since it can use the hardware acceleration for things like previewing M2T video with color correction with little strain on the CPU. I'm not sure how much of it is theory and how much of it is practical at this point, but this is definately the way to do it. I'm a long time Vegas User and this is the first time I've felt a twinge of jealousy for any other platform. Hopefully Vegas will update from it's VFW to the GPU approach with the next version.

January 27th, 2006, 01:32 PM	#4
Zachary Rand Tourist Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3	Hopefully Sony will take the same path at some point, because benchmarks of AVIVO show a dramatic improvement in rendering times (around 5x faster than the equivalent operation on an Athlon FX-57!!!).

January 27th, 2006, 01:42 PM	#5
Stephen Finton Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 344	AVIVO is only controlled by a video transcoder program that ATI supplies with the card. Currently AVIVO is not supported by anything but this little program.

January 27th, 2006, 03:26 PM	#6
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	That is probably officially the case, but I think reality is probably a little more positive. I am currently running NVidea's PureVideo decoder on an ATI card that is several years old. It doesn't accelerate wmv playback, but it works beautifully on M2T video, dropping the CPU usage on my P4 3.06 from stuttering at 100% to absolutely smooth with less than 40%, deinterlacing and color correcting on the fly as it plays. If nothing else, this card would probably fly under the NVidea decoder, at least until ATI comes up with their own version. Now if I could only do this acceleration from Vegas instead of just WMP10 I'd be happy! I have another thread on the general HD editing forum asking if anyone is having any luck with this on Premier Pro seeing as it is one of their newly advertised features.

January 27th, 2006, 04:06 PM	#8
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	This is the technology Adobe is pursuing accross their product line. Hopefully Sony has the good sense to do the same!